Unfortunately I can't put music to the post title. Some of us have jobs, some have no jobs, some have biglaw jobs. I hope nobody gets an offer rescinded.
I think career services is being proactive and doing their best in light of the economy. It would be nice to be hand-held into a job, but that just isn't going to happen. Or- and this seems possible (though I don't know how feasible- I am not familiar w/ the inner workings of career development)- perhaps they could start a file of 3Ls who are still job searching, so they can make referrals? Perhaps that creates liability- 3L-B throws a hissy-fit when 3L-A gets referred to a job.
Also, I hope the new walkway & brick stuff on baseline & broadway somehow helps push our ranking up more; higher ranking = more job opportunities, in my opinion.
Anybody have some good perspective, thoughts on the job/economy issue?
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57 comments:
Do something to distinguish yourself from the rest of your classmates. It would be nice to think that three years at CU law has fully prepared you for life in the legal community as a working professional, but reality indicates that an army of graduating 3Ls competing for a limited pool of entry-level jobs with limited differentiation in their CVs (driven by convergence towards the median) is not a recipe for success in Colorado.
My suggestions: go practice in another state for a while, look for a job outside of the legal field, or consider the possibilities of additional education, especially if you have some hard sciences experience. If there's one area that's completely under served in this town, it's patent prosecution, so consider finishing up that engineering major that you ditched back in college.
But Obama is coming. Isn't he going to save the economy? He isn't?!?! I want my vote back.
My advice applies regardless of which senator becomes president.
...and regardless of how the economy is doing.
as an 08er who found a job while studying for the bar exam, my advice is not to freak out. many small firms don't hire until they need someone, or around bar time. you don't have to leave the state or work in some other field. that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
No, but it is one potential path, depending upon your career goals.
Leaving the state is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you are certain you want to stay in Colorado.
Ha! My word verification is Noses!
As an '03er who recently landed a job doing document review in India along with 349 other people in a 12 x 25 room with no air conditioning and one bathroom for 52 cents an hour, I would say, keep your chin up. Things will turn around.
As to the original post by MM - I did get my current job as an '08 because of a specific referral from career development. They got a job opening and emailed me specifically about it [though it was simultaneously posted online] - they even gave a good review to the employer about me that day. I applied that night and 24 hours later had an interview and an offer. - Point of the story: suck up to Career Development - they are your best friend and will cherry pick a great job for you if they know who you are and what you want to do.
Additionally - it might be a little bit of my own hubris coming out but I do think that I had an intereseting and full resume to present to my interviewer because I had taken as many opportunities while in law school to do as many different things as possible. I started working from day one 1L year and had a job every semester and summer - so I had a very full resume by the time last semester 3L year rolled around.
did i mention that i didn't make hardly any money at any of those jobs durring law school? my 2L summer I made $6 an hour!! and i wasn't even flipping burgers - just writing motions.
off topic, but the outback halloween party was absolutely terrible. yes, bigger venue, but absolutely horrid bar service, and half of the place was empty anyway... 95% of the people there concentrated on or near the dance floor anyway.
not to mention the location... dark horse is much more centrally located at least... getting a cab near outback is damn near impossible. here's to hoping the 2Ls plan it better next year.
yes, the bar service sucked, butI had a blast. Everyone I saw seemed to be as well. no, it was not packed wall to wall, but it was big enough that no one had to be turned away like has happened in the past. I am more angry at the horrible cab service in Boulder. It took us hours to get a cab to show up
Any pictures to share?
The piss-poor bar service had nothing to do with the planning (unless the planners specifically asked for only two bartenders and to make one of them a total cack).
A comment for each topic: First, Career Development does rock. They are friendly and very eager to help out any student who reaches out for it. While I always try and keep "my" counselor up to date on my ever-changing job interests, I talk to all of them and they talk to each other so they all look out for you, not just your own counselor. I am a 3L and don't have a job lined up yet but they have put me in touch with at least 5 people that do what I want to do and I have talked to them all and gotten invitations to send my resume. They also got me the perfect internship for this year that is doing wonders for my resume. In sum, no need to suck up to them, just use them and respect them. You have nothing to lose!
As for the Halloween party- the bar service was the worst I have ever had anywhere. It was the bar's responsibility to be well-staffed and they failed. Whether the high-pressure atmosphere made "princess leah" cranky or whether he's not really cut out for customer service, I couldn't say. I can say that you should not be yelling at customers and telling them that they need to shut up or they won;t be served. Judging by the crowd's propensity to squish together, I don;t think us law students mind being squished together for a night of masked debauchery. I miss the Darkhorse.
Agreed - Princess Leah was out of line. It's the first time in my entire life I felt compelled to leave nothing for a tip.
I just got an email from James Hathorn - asking for a survey for his B school class - wtf?
I hope that somebody gives him some real shit for that.
I guess Career Services people do not like me. I talked to very often over the years, especially one person. But talking to them didn't lead to any job/ internship opportunities so far. I guess I need to know how to suck up to them.
08er here. I've got the same problem as the person above. Career Services must not like me either. I talked to them a lot, especially one person, and I applied to a couple of jobs back in May, and career services still hasn't gotten me a job. Wtf. Is there something else I'm supposed to be doing here? Ugh. Just keep kissing ass in the Career Services Office until they find me a job? What am I missing? HELP!
I don't think you need to suck up, but some of the counselors (particularly one) seem to need their egos stroked. I got my job from an opportunity that came up from another connection I had, not career services. Ever since, I feel jilted by "my" counselor because I got a job on my own without Career Services' help. The counselor seems somehow offended or mad that I got a job on my own, even though all avenues I pursued through Career Services got me nowhere.
Maybe this is just silly, but it seems that the economic situation coupled with the election might make many employers want to wait to hire. Certainly the financial situation doesn't help our profession as a whole. I would like to know--from Career Services or elsewhere--what we should be doing or expecting out of this other than check CDOnline for jobs.
I know my good friend, who's '08er, got his summer associate position and externship because Career Services people recommended him/her to the employers. i.e., specific referral. I don't think the externship was even announced. He/she happened to want that kind of externship so the people at the Career Services put in some good words. So I asked my friend how to be on the good side. He/she said to just talk to them. That's what I did over the years, and guess what I got? Nothing. One of them gave me an email address of a person who I can contact, but didn't even bother to put in good words for me. So basically, I came to terms that job search is my own thing.
I heard from a friend who went to Northwestern Law that one of her classmate was hired at Heller this year, but was fired as soon as dissolution was announced. So that guy is knocking on their Career Services for a job. Wish I can do that with our career services.
Oh, by the way, how is moving outside Colorado panning out for '08ers? If Career Services are having hard time placing students in Colorado, I imagine it's going to be worse for those who moved or is planning to move elsewhere.
Congrats to Joe Neguse!
Indeed, anon. 11:18. Big congrats to Joe!!!!
Congrats to Joe Neguse! And continuing to hope for a win for MH and Amendment 46!
meant to say hoping for win for MH, in defeating 46...you know what I mean.
The prices in Spruce are through the ROOF. WTF????
Pass 46! Affirmative Action = BS, especially when the beneficiaries make more than poor white people. People in economic trouble should get help, not just people with different skin color!
Since when are poor whites the standard? Even poor whites benefit from their white identity and gain implicit advantages from that identity. Conversely, rich blacks, for example, are implicitly disadvantaged by their black identity - despite the best education and image that money can buy. Worse yet, poor blacks are doubly disadvantaged. That was the original purpose - to counterbalance the underlying disadvantage that continues to persist for minorities in this country, rich or poor. The system could be refined, but pure economics is not the answer.
Not a big fan of affirmative action. Also not a big fan of a constitutional amendment banning affirmative action. We really shouldn't need either.
As for affirmative action, it can be good or bad. If misused, it does a great disservice to the individual (i.e., if someone is accepted based mostly on their skin color or ethnic background, but that person lacks the intellectual fortitude to succeed at the institution or in the profession, this is a huge disservice). I really don't think that most schools need affirmative action plans in place to increase diversity. I also don't think any state needs an amendment to their constitution banning any form of affirmative action.
"Even poor whites benefit from their white identity and gain implicit advantages from that identity."
Please explain-- do they gain distinct advantages over wealthy minorities? Poor minorities might be in a worse situation than poor whites, but poor minorities is NOT the current standard either. Do you really think that wealthy minorities have fewer opportunities than poor whites? Poor people generally are the ones in need of help. How many people do you school to school with who grew up on welfare?
Still, anon. 7:22 brings up a good point-- that this would have gone into our Constitution is a reason to have voted against it.
re: Anon 9:01 on 11-3 - I agree: wtf?
re: anon 7:22
I agree - we should not need affirmative action. But we do. to suggest that people who are benefiting from it are inherently disqualified is insulting.
Anon 7:22 here. I did not intend to suggest that people benefiting from affirmative action programs are inherently disqualified. However, since you bring it up, when you have an affirmative action program it does, without question, undermine the qualifications and belittle the achievements of those that benefit from it.
My point was that there are some (I know of more than one who will openly admit it) who were not qualified to be admitted with the program and who admittedly suffered from being here. Although I do not know who all is at CU because of affirmative action, I know several minority students at CU that are more than qualified and who should be at or near the top of their class. I do not want to speculate who is or is not at CU because of affirmative action and nor do I want to presume that all CU minority students are here because of affirmative action. If such is the case, that is a crying shame because many minority students are more qualified than most of their peers in the class. Having an affirmative action program degrades those that do not need it and it belittles their own achievements. If you are correct that we need affirmative action to bring minority students in (because otherwise the numbers are lacking), it is either because minority students are disqualified or it is because the admissions office is prejudiced. Rather than belittle minorities and assume we need affirmative action, the proper approach should be to change the persons involved in making admissions decisions. If affirmative action is really the only solution, then that suggests to me that those students that need affirmative action should not be admitted. If the real problem is in prejudice by the decision maker, change the decision maker rather than belittle minorities by saying that they have to be given special consideration to be admitted.
The merits of 46 aside--isn't Anon 8:29's post just racist?
Anon 7:22
If the people who are admittedly under qualified suffered from being here, they have no one to blame but themselves. I think it is an injustice to blame it on affirmative action. I know of just as many students who suffered from being here who are not blaming it on affirmative action.
Affirmative action is needed because (look out for a bad metaphor) if you start the race two minutes behind everyone else you can never catch up. It doesn't mean you are could not have won, had you been able to start with everyone else. But, not everyone is a winner.
Affirmative action just gives back those two minutes.
Weird, my word verification is Plessy.
anon 10:06
Let's use a hypothetical to illustrate how AA is unfair. We have 2 deans who are minorities. Assume their kids apply to CU law school. Under CU's race-based AA policies, the children of deans LT and DM would receive preferential treatment over virtually all whites.
Now Anon 8:30, do you seriously think the children of our deans start the race 2 minutes behind everyone else? If so, then at what point should we expect minorities to compete on a level playing field? The bottom line is that AA is unfair to whites and overrepresented minorities. I think CO will have the opportunity to vote on this issue again and it will pass by on overwhelming margin.
By my understanding, 46 would not have prevented administrators from selecting people who were/are disadvantaged but showed potential nonetheless. It would have prevented administrators from making the arbitrary conclusion that because someone is a minority then they are disadvantaged or diverse.
Um...I don't think there are any "overrepresented" minorities at CU. And God forbid something be unfair to whites.
anon 2:03
You're a complete douche for using two incredibly successful and highly educated people (and their children) as your representative sample of those who gain the 'unfair advantage' that makes your panties crawl up your tight ass.
Anon 2:03:
"do you seriously think the children of our deans start the race 2 minutes behind everyone else? If so, then at what point should we expect minorities to compete on a level playing field?"
You are undoubtedly white. How about making "AA" last a total of 256 years, which is the amount of time that your people kept slaves in this country?
I didn't realize that members of every minority group were kept as slaves in the US. And that every single minority (without exception) has ancestors who were slaves in the US.
Also, let's not forget the origins of the word "slave": It comes from "Slav" i.e. people of Slavic origin who are/were white and enslaved during the middle ages. Why not have affirmative action for them as well?
I can't determine when I dislike this blog more: when people post about serious topics, or foolish topics.
I know when I like it best: when no one posts.
Being a minority, especially a racial minority, puts you at a disadvantage, no matter how successful you parents are, or how much money you have.
Anon 2:03,
I think it's pretty clear that you don't know what it is like to be without privilege. I think that's great. All of us should be so lucky. But we are not.
Clearly you have not done your research, because affirmative action most readily benefits white women.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen it's true! Affirmative action benefits white people.
I think it is pretty inappropriate that you used the deans' kids as an example.
I will just say that as long as we try to cure disadvantages of certain minority groups by looking at them through a lense of race or gender, we will continue to have a problem. I realize that affirmative action and organizations like the National Association for the Advancement of COLORED People (emphasis added), as well as gay rights groups and women's rights groups, have excellent intentions. However, by insisting on a solution which looks at color, race, gender, etc., such groups and movements are insisting that the problem remain. The solution is simple. Education. The only cure for bigotry is education. Affirmative Action will not cure bigotry or prejudice, but will rather foster an atmosphere in which bigotry and prejudice remain. While it may have taken, or may still take, some form of affirmative action to jump start progress, our goal should be to get away from affirmative action as quickly as possible so that real progress can be made. Whether or not today is that day, I know not. But I do know that affirmative action only offers short term relief of the symptoms. It will not cure the problem. And even those that benefit from affirmative action should pray for its quick demise, because they will benefit much more from a complete cure.
Try saying that under your own name.
Word verification: butbog.
I think LGBQT organizations actually fall in a slightly different analysis, as they are trying to reach a baseline in civil rights that are held by non-LGBQT: marriage/civil union, property rights, etc. Other protected classes aren't denied from these 'civil' rights.
word verification: fibless
No system that attempts to classify people by a common trait can be flawless. You can only hope that it benefits more people than it harms. Hopefully the percentage of people who are rightfully helped by AA programs greatly outweigh those who are harmed.
Also, I just had an affirmative action... In my pants.
No individuals are harmed by AA, atleast in the sense that they are being denied a spot in a class or a job because a person of color or whoever is getting extra consideration. Those that think they are are full of themselves. Society as a whole is harmed because AA forces the real problem to continue. "Oh look, it's a black person, let's look at them differently." It's a problem even if they are being looked at differently for positive consideration.
To the Anon above me:
I don't know what planet you live on, but here on Earth in the U.S. of A. black people, women, gay people, brown people, etc. ARE looked at differently. It's hypocritical to pretend to be "color" blind when it would be beneficial to minorities.
So, should gay and lesbian programs have similiar affirmative action programs? Or is it too easy to say that you are gay to enter into one of these programs for a leg up? Or do we trust the ethics of your average job applicant or student? Does "that one time at band camp" make you gay for the purposes of such a program?
The above comment at first irked me, but then I realized that it would be fantastic if people who wanted 'to gain an edge' by claiming they are part of the GLBT community.
We need more people fighting for equality, even if they are closeted straight.
Anon 4:16:
I see an important difference between sexual preference and racial identity in discussing affirmative action. Sexual preference need not be instantly identifiable - often it is a wholly private matter no matter what the preference might be at the discretion of the individual. Race, on the other hand, is instantly visible, identifiable, and public. We cannot be color blind in a country and continues to treat certain people less favorably, even if unconsciously, based solely on skin color. [Much pride to the LGBT movement - I just don't think that the comparison is useful here].
Thoughts on the job/economy issue: Get a clerkship. It gives you another year to hope that the economy will turn around before you have to find a real job. I'm not sure things will get much better by then, but at least the judges aren't affected by the financial crisis. Also, the exposure you get to a wide variety of practice areas may help you figure out what you really want to do. Plus, it makes you more attractive to potential employers, and every edge helps in this economy. Good luck guys!
7:34, I couldn't disagree with you more. What if my great, great, great grandfather was African, and everyone else in my family was white? Am I an African-American? Or what if my dad was black, my mom was an albino, and I came out looking hispanic? There are lots of grey areas with race, it is not that simple.
Everyone should just wear government-mandated arm bands with little symbols on them that indicate racial composition. Mine will have a pie chart on it with the appropriate percentages represented.
I went to the diversity reception for this year's Pledge program and the definition of minority is getting whiter with blue eyes. In a rooom of roughly 50 DU and CU students about fifteen or twenty were truly minorities (as judged by appearance). I'm sure there are blue-eyed, blonde-haired, or albino Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans and Blacks. But such a large concentration in one room at the same time, in the name of diversity, what are the odds?
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