Wednesday, December 19, 2007
Class gift
I'd just like to throw this out there, but if I remember correctly, there were recent discussions about what exactly to do with the class gift money. (Forgive me if I'm not remembering the substance of those discussions correctly.) I think, given the passing of one of our classmates, it might be most appropriate to use that money for a scholarship named in her honor, or some other suitable memorial. Thoughts?
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I think this is a wonderful idea, and I know it's already come up with several people I've talked to. We should definitely do something with the gift that honors Jenn, and I don't think the gym is the way to go. What does everyone else think? What do Jenn's really close friends think?
I agree, LS. That's a great idea.
Do any of you know anything of her interests/background? I don't think I ever had the opportunity to meet her.
agreed. jenn was a vibrant person and had a positive impact on her classmates and this school.
I'm so glad you suggested this. I had the same thought but didn't want to get the class gift debate going again. Jenn was interested in sports law. Perhaps some type of sports law scholarship?
Jenn wasn't going to practice in Sports Law, and she wasn't wild about the class either, although she was very athletic. It might be a nice idea to have a scholarship in her honor that students nominated their peers for. Everyone really liked Jenn and she was friendly to all. The family could select the scholarship recipient. It'd be a nice way to honor her memory.
I agree with Anon 12:31. What Jenn loved most about CU-Law was her friends -- not classes or sports law or even law in general. Having a scholarship in her name is a great idea, and having her parents choose the recipient (if they're interested) would seem appropriate.
Great idea. Her family and friends should definitely be involved.
I like it because it's something positive. Do we have enough money, though?
I was under the impression that Class of 2008 has gobs of money, the most any class has ever raised. And I personally (as member of '08) cannot think of a better way to spend it.
I vote for the scholarship!!
MW et al, any thoughts -- can it be done??
I would also vote for the scholarship in her name.
You have got to be kidding me. What did she do to deserve having a scholarship in her name? Just because someone dies, it doesn't connect that they should be memorialized in that way. Before this snowball gets too far down the hill, I suggest that we wait and see what actually happened before we start making these kinds of decisions.
Additionally, if I remember correctly, MW and the other class officers stated that we had already voted on a class gift, and they would reconsider.
I know that this sound crass and insensitive, but it is the fact of the matter. I really don't think that this is an appropriate use of class funds. Perhaps we, as a class, set up a fund where donations could go for a memoriam, in addition to our current gift fund.
I think what she *did* was she became a friend to a lot of people in the law school. I think that's doing something and being someone, and it's not unusual to do what people are suggesting. There are several scholarships that are in memory of law students who have passed away.
Incidentally, I'm not quite sure how knowing what happened to Jenn should affect the idea of honoring her with a scholarship in her memory. Just my two cents.
I think the law school should at least name something in her honor. It would be a lot more appropriate to have the "Jenn Shelton Memorial Commons" or "Jenn Shelton Memorial Courtyard" or something of than nature than some "Holland & Hart" career office or some bullshit like that.
Some sort of honorarium needs to be created. She was one of the most typical, wonderful friendly people you could know, not just some self-centered asshole who steps on other people to be in the top ten percent. Sorry, I am venting a little, but this just sucks.
re: Anon 2:49:
You really don't deserve my time for a response, but I'm in the mood to let you know that you are an assclown so here goes...
You say, "just because someone dies, it doesn't connect that they should be memorialized in that way." First of all, as blaw pointed out, what she "did" was be a great friend to many people, and overall create a positive vibe around school. While it seems you didn't embrace some of her positivity, many were impacted by Jenn's positive influence. (And, seriously, who tries to fight a scholarship in honor of a person that has passed away? Don't you have better things to do with your time? Gheesh).
Additionally, as to your comment about not "memorializing someone in that way" I can't help but notice a couple of scholarships that are available to law students...
1)David Sutcliffe Memorial Scholarship; "established by David's friends, family, and classmates from the Colorado Class of '95, is awarded to a second-year student who demonstrates financial need and who most REPRESENTS DAVID'S LOVE OF LIFE."
2)J.J. Witt Memorial Law Scholarship; "established by the Class of 2001, is awarded to a student who best exhibits J.J. Witt's qualities. These qualities include a POSITIVE OUTLOOK, a CHEERFUL DISPOSITION, a SENSE OF HUMOR..."
Needless to say, there does seem to be some "connect" to memorializing someone with Jenn's attitudes on life.
Additionally, as to it being an appropriate use of class funds, the Class of 2007 gave their gift to LRAP. That is essentially a scholarship that helps a law student pay off debt from law school. This would be a scholarship that would help a student avoid a certain amount of debt. Not exactly the same thing, but pretty similar.
And while it is an option to create a memorial fund in her honor separate from the class gift funds, it may be difficult to raise significant amounts of money that would make the scholarship possible for years to come. Also, to start off with "you've got to be kidding me" is not a good way to forward your lame-ass explanation for being "crass and insensitive" as you so aptly described yourself.
Finally, before you go wasting your time telling me how immature I am for calling you an assclown, just remember sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
Life is tough, but Jenn played a part in making life easier and better on many people. If you take anything out of my rant Anon 2:49, maybe you should spend less time being "crass and insensitive" and be just a little more like Jenn Shelton.
Have a good day.
Why does something need to be done? I'm a 3L, I didn't even know her. Re: the last comment: Was she in the top 10%?
Should the law school honor all of its graduates that have passed away in some fashion? What makes this different?
Yikes, how about if you have something negative to say about creating a class gift in Jenn's name, you vote accordingly if it comes to a vote or let a class officer know privately instead of posting here.
As much as you may not have known Jenn, or didn't appreciate her (or whatever your problem is) a lot of people did know her and loved her and are grieving. Take the negativity somewhere else.
Rest in peace, Jenn.
I think the difference here is that she passed on while we were all in school together. I didn't know here at all either, but clearly she had a very positive impact on a great number of people's lives. That is something that should be honored and celebrated.
Of course, lots of CU law grads pass on, a few while in school, like Jenn did and not all of them have scholarships in their name (or so I would guess.) However if someone like MW or another class officer wants to look into doing another vote in light of recent events or creating another alternative for those who wish to create something in her name, that would clearly be welcomed by some.
I think the point of this thread is to encourage someone in a leadership position to explore these options. That said, if you are not in favor of the idea, you can express that view as well, but it would be nice if it were done respectfully!
Anon 4:30,
Anon 249 here. You're right, I shouldn't have started my comment with "You have got to be kidding me." That was a poor choice of wording, and I apologize if I offended anyone.
However, I think that establishing a scholarship requiring attributes like "love of life," or "a positive outlook, a cheerful disposition, a sense of humor" (please excuse me not using all caps) is a little ridiculous. How do we judge that? If she died doing something that we shouldn't be encouraging, shouldn't that play a part in describing the scholarship? Maybe if she died doing something like that, a more appropriate use of funds would be using them to prevent further deaths under the same circumstances. No? For example, if she died of some disease, maybe we should give a scholarship for kids with the same or a similar sickness. But just naming a scholarship after someone because they died just doesn't seem like a good use of funds.
Finally, I know several people in the law school with similar attributes of Jenn; why shouldn't we name a scholarship after them?
I know that I'm probably in the minority regarding this, but I also think that too many people are thinking with their emotions, not their heads. Being so soon after her death, this is not an appropriate conversation to be having right now.
MW and the other officers already foreclosed the idea of having another vote. The reasons for having another one before is because a lot of people didn't like the ideas. Now, we have a situation of people having a better idea than the current two.
I don't see a difference.
I urge all of you who are not affected by the death of Jenn Shelton to just abstain from making any remarks regarding the merits of the scholarship, the significance of Jenn's cause of death as it relates to the scholarship, and
Many of your classmates are now grieving the loss of a great friend. Maybe you didn't know Jenn, but think about losing your best friend, the person who made you laugh, the person who made law school a better experience for you. It is a very tough time. The best thing we can do is try to empathize with those suffering and support each other. Not bicker, argue, or debate on this.
The idea of a scholarship has a lot of merit for reasons that were stated by others before me. The death of a 25 year old woman who was a friend to many of us and who had the most positive attitude one can imagine in law school is enough of a tragedy to warrant reconsideration of the class gift. It is for the class officers to decide what to do. Whether they have a vote or not and whether they simply reject this idea or just approve it as the new class gift, it is their prerogative.
Please try to understand how hard these times are for some of us and, if you can't do anything to ease our pain, at least refrain from doing things that will add to it.
The holidays are coming and tough times dealing with Jenn's passing await many of us. Please be kind and respectful and let us grieve the loss of our friend.
Here's a little blurb Jenn wrote about herself-- it describes her so well as a person--
"What can I say? I like to event...you could call me an eventer. Well, I'm in lawyer school and I try to do anything and everything to pretend like I'm not. I do occassionally enjoy acting like i'm 11 and skipping can be really fun too. If you are going to spend long periods of time with me (or even not so long), and if you take yourself too seriously, I will probably nickname you. You may think I'm crazy, and I will take that as a compliment. I will probably take most things as a compliment. after all, it's just really about perspective. what else? i belong on a beach somewhere very warm, perhaps in a hammock with a corona or two in hand. i have a list of places i want to go before i die and my list is long. i believe in karma. i ski, bitch. i want to learn to play golf, play the guitar, fly planes, and oh yes, surf. lately, i've been wanting to take up boxing. hot tubs in the snow make me giddy. sometimes i wish on stars. the sport of soccer has made me who i am today. laughing could be my favorite hobby. you should probably watch me dance. i absolutely hate losing, that's why i win. i wish i could sing. sarcasm is great, so are prank wars. i'm a horrible kayaker. i love to daydream. i've only caught one fish in my life. i'm amazing at procrastinating. early morning is my favorite time of day but sleeping in is perhaps even more incredible. i better still be skiing when i'm 75. i only run on trails and up mountains...treadmills are sinful. i love being inspired. i never want to lose my imagination. my parents and my brother are my true heroes. mangoes are delicious. i like adventure. i almost drowned in a lake once. a good conversation is refeshing but sometimes talking can be overrated. i like t-shirts. i think i trust people too easily. spontaneity is incredibly sexy. my dream job is to work at sea world. hope is what gets me up each morning. i love people that make me love (or just really like)."
Anon 5:16, Anon 4:42 here.
I felt like my comments were appropriate and completely sensitive to everyone, however, I was not personally affected by the death of Jenn, as I stated in my post.
The topic of this thread is class gift and the original post suggests that others' thoughts are desired. If you choose to ask people to not speak about a topic because of their particular view on it, you thwart the point of the post entirely. However, I certainly agree, and my previous post suggests, that a certain amount of respect is necessary in a situation like this.
Perhaps creating a separate thread for grieving purposes or one to talk about how great of a person Jenn was would be warranted. Then, those who weren't affected by her death should not be posting there, since the point of the thread would be related to her passing.
I understand emotions are running high and perhaps a thread just for those who knew her and support the scholarship idea would be helpful. But this thread was not started for that reason, it was started as a suggestion to be commented on.
Anon 5:34-- you simply don't get it. Your 2 cents are not worth anything right now. You fundamentally lack all empathy even when it is begged of you to attempt to put yourself in someone else's shoes. For the love of god, try thinking about your best friend and how "fair" you would think it would be for someone to have their say in a time of grief. Please, just find something else to do with your time than hurt your classmates who are already down. THAT is NOT fair.
To all that did not know Jenn, please read the post from Anon 5:28. THAT is Jenn Shelton.
Anon 5:38
I will abstain from any further posts and will not turn this comment into an opportunity to defend my earlier posts, because that is really not what is important right now.
I hope you are getting grief counseling. You appear to be very angry and emotionally unstable.
Anon 5:34
brokenhearted - thank you so much for that posting. What a beautiful tribute.
everyone - please rise above anon 5:47.
Seriously, whoever the person is who feels like they need to put in their "two cents" about the scholarship just needs to quit talking for a while, ace. For you to even insinuate that there may have been something nefarious about her passing merits a serious ass-kicking. Quit being an insensitive douche bag for once in your likely miserable, overly rational life. It's not like your "two cents" amount to anything anyway.
Jenn was one of the finest people I have ever met and a close friend of mine. She had indomitable spirit and an unmatched zest for life. The world is a little darker with her gone.
So have some goddamn respect when you're talking about the recently departed. She was without a doubt twice the person you seem to be.
Dave Shaw
Anon 5:34, you are being both inconsiderate and inconsistent. You write that you didn't know Jenn, and then claim that you know many people in law school who share her attributes. If you didn't know her, you didn't know her personality. I knew her quite well, and I can confidently say that I have never known anyone with her attributes and probably never will again.
You obviously didn't know her, which is a shame since she probably would have made you a more light-hearted, caring, and compassionate person in the way that she did so many others. In the mean time, save the debate for a class meeting and stop speculating about the cause of her death. It's been hard enough without you insinuating that something happened to tarnish her reputation.
All,
I think Jenn was a unique person. She should be remembered in a unique way.
How about we use the funds to buy a large solar panel for the school.
I don't know if Jenn cared much about alternative energy, but the gift is a good metaphor. Jenn lighted up everyone around her. A solar panel in her honor would use light to help the whole school, not just one scholarship recipient.
To honor Jenn, we could put a memorial sign near the solar panel so people can read about her.
Also, with ~20K to spend, we could buy a sizable panel -- not enough to power the whole school, but enough to power a large home.
I have no idea how plausible that is, but it's a really lovely idea.
heartbroken... thank you giving those of us who didn't know her an insight into who she was.
This is a response to anon 4:42
because I DON'T think "the point of this thread is to encourage someone in a leadership position to explore these options."
I think we're at the point where we need to take the situation in our own hands. Encouraging the leadership here will not work. (I've heard from MW personally, that he doesn't even read this blog.)
I didn't know Jenn, but her passing has affected me as her classmate. I feel so awful for her family and friends right now, especially during this time of year. She was so young and had her whole future ahead of her. We should do something to help ensure she is not forgotten while the rest of us take our futures for granted and go on with our lives.
I agree the class of 08 needs to do something. Changing the class gift is one option, but its going to take a petition by a majority of the students to do so. I for one would support it, but don't feel its my place to start since I didn't know Jenn. Plus, realistically, we would need to double our class gift (from $25K to $50K) in the next 4 months to leave a lasting endowment in her memory. Not an easy task (and one that would probably require large donations from law firms).
Hopefully there are other options that may be more realistic and would still do justice for Jenn's legacy...
To Dave and the other posters who were Jenn's close friends, thank you, and I'm so sorry for what you all are going through. Obviously I think the thought of honoring Jenn in some way is awesome. All I can say is that there will always be those who are so lacking in compassion and empathy that they can't even see what they're lacking. And, we are, after all, in law school, so you see more of that. One thing on the whole scholarship subject: I *love* the idea of a non-scholarship-based scholarship. The top 15% is already taken care of, let's face it. I would love to give scholarship bucks to someone more like Jenn and less like certain anons.
Everyone, on an administrative note, do you see the "nickname" radio button down below? It allows you to choose a nickname with no registration instead of using anonymous. You can change your nickname whenever you post. The beauty of it is that it's easier to track replies. If you could all start using it, I would be very appreciative.
"I urge all of you who are not affected by the death of Jenn Shelton to just abstain from making any remarks regarding the merits of the scholarship, the significance of Jenn's cause of death as it relates to the scholarship ..."
So only her friends get a vote?
This is why this is probably a conversation for a later time?
I like the idea of a solar panel. She was an Environmental Studies major as an undergrad. Hopefully, the law firm she was supposed to work for will step up to the plate and we can raise money to honor her memory in a really meaningful way. I'd also be in favor of some kind of area where people could gather to commemorate her memory. Perhaps some picnic tables/benches outside. She was such a social person and often spent time in the courtyard with friends.
Some kind of commemorative gift or a non-scholarly-merit-based would be a fantastic idea to honor one of our classmates who died too early.
Oops, I forgot. I'm still really into the idea of establishing a scholarship awarded to someone who embodies Jenn's spirit--someone whose positive spirit lightens the world around her. I like the idea of nominating people and taking a vote for finalists, as I think Jenn was loved and respected by all who knew her. It'd be nice to have the family's participation as well, if they want to be involved.
Anon 6:37, the poster was merely suggesting that you refrain from comments that make this time even more difficult for those who are already grieving. Of course you can vote, but do it later and try to be respectful in your postings and keep potentially cruel comments to yourself.
I echo the earlier commentator-- thanks for posting that piece from Jenn. I didn't know her, but her warmth and humor really shines through in that snippet. My condolences to everyone who is grieving.
I haven't posted any of the previous comments, though see where this conversation is headed.
I think that since this is turning into a planning phase and the whole point of this thread (entitled "Class gift") was to talk about ways to honor her - this is the right forum to talk about it. I don't think that this is the right time, but LegalSchmegal decided to put it up for discussion anyway.
Obviously he or she didn't think that the emotions of her friends would effect the tone of the conversation. It most certainly does, though. I am saddened by the loss of anyone's friend of family. It is horrible when someone so young is cut down so unexpectedly.
I did know Jenn, and I liked her a great deal, though I'm not sure if the class gift should be in her name. I understand the reservations of some to implement this - she was a great person, but it is too early to tell what the best way to honor her would be - emotions are too high and thoughts are too clouded, and honestly they may stay that way if we don't find out any more details about how she died.
Everyone just needs to calm down and relax - there has been a tragedy and people need to morn and adjust to this. Decisions about this kind of money needs to be made with a clear mind (if we can get there).
This thread is premature and causing more harm than good. People are getting upset and threatening others. I think this illustrates a reason for it to wait.
Blawg moderators-- could you post a new thread where people can contribute memories & stories of Jenn?
Voice of Reason, I have to defend LS's original post. It was kind, well-intentioned, and as the first person to comment noted, a subject that had already come up among several people that postr knew. I don't think this is "planning." I think people are throwing out ideas to see what feels right. I was merely an acquaintance of Jenn's, yet her death really affected me. The idea that we might have some official way of honoring her memory lightened my spirit just a bit today.
I agree with blaw. It's nice to feel like you can do something to honor a special person's memory during this difficult time. The thought of a lasting tribute to her eases the pain a little bit.
I stopped reading this site because of all the inane and stupid comments on it, but I wanted to read it to see everyone's perspective. Great to see that people are still being inconsiderate pricks. Anon at 5:34, get over yourself. Try being sensitive to the feelings of others. Just because you are going to be an attorney, does mean you have to be an asshole, especially anonymously. I agree with Dave Shaw, and please read the 5:27 post, as that sounds about right. And cheers to Jenn, and my condolences to her family.
One other question. Besides the party tonight, is there anyway anyone else can donate to Jenn or her family? I know many people have gone home already, so it would be nice for there to be another way to help out.
I'm posting this message on this tread, as it has less to do with remembering Jenn than it does with the unusual way the law school community reacts/responds to this type of tragedy.
I'm assuming I'm not the only one to receive the email this morning under the Subject: Jenn Shelton: In Memoriam, which included a little about Jenn and a lot of on a specific religious/political perspective.
What are folks thoughts?
Is this just an opportunistic spam, leveraging the tragedy and class email lists to broadcast a viewpoint, with some expectation that additional viewpoints won't be distributed in the same way? I don't think any of us want to hear every students religious convictions any more than we all want to get email when someone needs a sitter for their dog, or a ski-pass to give away...so I expect the list admins might reasonablly restrict/limit similar spams to the CU class lists, as they have (only) occasionally done in the past. Contrast this a approach with spirtually, even politically, themed messages posted on this blog, where CU students can read it or not -- without it landing in everyone's mailbox -- combined with the opportunity for as many voices to be heard in follow-up or in similarly themed threads.
Or was the email a helpful thing?
In other words, are students -- especially those who were closest to Jenn -- interested in hearing all of our individual religious perspectives as a possible balm for their pain, mixed with our thoughts on how Western democracy may succeed or fail in embodying those beliefs?
If you're so brokenhearted that you can't hear someone respectfully disagree with you, what the hell are you doing reading the blawg? The whole point of the blawg is to give people the opportunity to state opinions that might not be "p.c." I don't think that someone dying is a valid reason to give them a scholarship at all, and I don't give a shit if other classes have done it. If we're going to name our class gift after a particular class member, I nominate MW.
Respectfully? There's very little that's respectful about your post or the post that others criticized earlier. I don't mind people disagreeing, but you mocking other's grief and your tone are totally uncalled for and flat out rude. Try having a little dignity.
Dying might not be a valid reason, but deeply touching the lives of others is. She made the law school a better, brighter, more bearable, unlike people like you who needlessly cut others down and have no respect for other's feelings.
Who thinks that the purpose of the blawg is to state opinions that are un-pc? When did that get figured out?
I've always said the worst part of law school is going to school with other people who want to be lawyers. I realize now that that is really unfair, because coming to CU let me become friends with people like Jenn and other genuinely great people I've met here. It's the people who make comments like the few above that contribute to that attitude, though, which I know I'm not alone in having. What kind of selfish prick do you have to be to think it's okay to talk like that in a public forum about such a topic?
I genuinely feel sorry for those people who have portrayed themselves so poorly here. It's clear you weren't friends with Jenn, not because you're acting like a callous ass in the hours after her death, but because those people whose lives she touched learned not to take themselves or anything else so unimportant so seriously.
I would say normally I am emphatically not in favor of receiving emails about religion and religious beliefs, but in this case... it's different. I read it, I was sad to think of Jenn not being here and I felt sad that many of us have lost a friend and classmate. While I may not agree with the sentiments, I understand that many people do. I read the email, reflected on it briefly, and then deleted it. That email was not about how I feel -- it was about what someone else was feeling. The same way I would give someone a hug in the hall ... I listened. It's part of being a law school family (it's part of being a human being).
Thank you buddhistlawstudent-- that is exaclt how I felt about it.
Despite the fact that emotions are high right now, the fact of the matter is Jenn passed away, is not coming back, and should be remembered. It is a rare event that a student passes away during law school. It shouldn't matter how she died or even what contributions she made to the law school community. What matters is she was one of us and now she's gone. She should be remembered in some way. No one will be hurt by it.
Jenn should be remembered, memorialized, by the class of 2008. The overwhelming majority of our class appears to agree that a memorial of some sort is appropriate. I, personally, can't think of a better use for our class gift.
I agree and I think we heard many points of view, a majority of which are in favor of this. We are NOT taking a vote on the blog, so insensitive, heartless bloggers don't need to worry that they won't get a say or only "Jenn's friends" will have a vote.
What is wrong with people?!! Some of the comments on this blog show exactly why people hate lawyers! To have the guts to call others emotionally unstable, when you are an emotionless a@$*ole is absolutely mindnumbing!
Jenn as a person and her passing impacted much more than her friends. I was not that close to her, yet I have definitely felt a void in the past few days. It is about the community! Supporting those who miss her dearly and remembering that she was a part of our class.
That's why memorializing her is important...not because we are trying to find the most meritorious student to name a scholarship after! It is not that hard!
The point here has been totally missed. There are some of us who have not felt a void, or don't notice the more dark world - who didn't know Jenn, but nonetheless who can respectfully empathize with her family and friends as a community effort. At this point in our lives, we all know what loss feels like. Comments about the use of class fund and comments about Jenn or her friends are not intentionally connected. This was a conversation that was posted by a blog administrator.
There are those of us that fell Jenn, in all respect, should be memorialized in an appropriate way that doesn't happen to redirect class funds. There are a ton of ideas out there - ideas that we can leverage in to a something that will grow into something that will represent her. Let's be creative. Continue to have class funds go to whatever they were going for anyway, and start a fund raising effort in Jenn's name - make a gift that was intended to represent her in the first place.
Suggesting that anyone is trying to insult anyone else during their time of grief is plain wrong. A "you're with us or against us" type attitude that is being representing is causing more harm than good. Letting a tragedy tear apart a community is horrible.
I agree with voice of reason, and besides, thinking of DS kicking anyone's ass is laughable.
It's awfully brave to say that anonymously. I agree with him. It was the tone, not the content. Read the posts.
I am a 3L who didn't know Jenn, but I can tell by all accounts she was a great friend whose passing has left a hole in our class. I love the idea of our class gift being a scholarship in her honor, particularly one that is not tied to any academic achievement, but rather is awarded to a 3L in future classes who has made a positive impact on the law school community. Too often law school is about grades and not often enough about community. It sounds like Jenn was one of those rare people who attempted to make the law school community a more livable place and such a scholarship would be an appropriate way to honor her memory.
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