I don't feel compelled to post anonymously in this instance.
Those of you who singled out a particular student for extra special ridicule at the talent show tonight, not to mention those of you who laughed at the "joke," ought to be ashamed of yourselves. That was a lower blow than I thought anyone at this school was willing to undertake. I have nothing else to say, except that certain individuals might be better advised to "shut up" themselves before they publicly espouse vicious sentiments about their fellow students in a highly public forum. Those of you who attended the talent show know what I'm talking about. Comment away...
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53 comments:
Wow, I have no idea what happened because I wasn't there, but if what happened was bad enough to raise John's hackles to such a degree then maybe I'm glad I didn't go.
Yep, it's unfortunate that a group of guys I once had some respect for showed such poor judgment and meanness. I was disappointed.
You know, I always thought the talent show was a little bit high school-ish, and so I also didn't feel compelled to go to the show. I only know what happened from second-hand accounts, but it sounds like I was right, and a certain high school mentality leaked into the events last night. Pretty unfortunate.
Uh, glad I missed it? Thank you, John, for speaking up.
I was there. It was NOT vicious. It was about people that are actually liked by the singers.
It was hilarious. Lighten up... everyone is so seri-o around here...
Did the people know they were going to be "roasted"?
Jesus. You people are such whiny little crybabies.
I'm glad you weren't there too.
I was there also. The whole talent show is a bit high-schoolish. But there were also some extraordinary talented people there. Including the singers discussed in this post. John, you should think twice before you make accusations not knowing the whole story. I'm pretty certain that they only sang about their friends and professors that they like.
What are you talking about John? First, there was no ONE student singled out. Maybe you noticed the one student you are refering to because she's your friend. There was a whole group of people that were mentioned and the students who did that act cleared everything that was said with everyone they had a chance to- which in this case was everyone but one person. Second, all the jokes were in good spirit. There was no meanness and certainly no vicious sentiments. Those who were there and have a sense of humor (gasp)enjoyed the show. For those who were not there, ask John to give you a little more info that the confusing, short, and inflammatory blurb that he posted.
And JST is right- it is high schoolish but by no stretch of the imagination mean-spirited.
The student in question might even disagree with you John. She does talk alot (which was all that was said about her). She makes good points in class. And good for her getting the most she can out of her law school eduation. I'm another person who knows those guys who said she talks alot - but THEY talk alot!! They like people who TALK ALOT. All three of them are constantly yammering in class. Their song was funny and it is lame of you tell people otherwise.
I wasn't there, but also heard it was funny and that no one was actually hurt by it--John, do you know otherwise? This post may actually be doing more damage to this person's feelings than the incident itself at this point.
Ok...First, the talent show was fun, as much fun as it promised to be. Those people are talented and they put themselves out there.
ALL of the acts were entertaining and the one refered to in this post was hilarious. Now, as for the high school aspect of it, yeah, there may be some truth there, but here's what more highschoolish- the DRAMA of this post! Lighten-up!
I was at the talent show - I think there are some misleading postings thus far.
The song was hilarious, and was not meanspirited for the most part; however, I agree with John that the comment at issue was mean-spirited. Additionally, the person it was directed at WAS singled out because the rest of the people mentioned are friends with the three guys singing the song. Those guys are NOT friends at all whatsoever with the girl at issue.
All this doesnt ruin the evening - I'm glad I went, best event of the year. That said, the line in the song was mean. I'm not sure where that leaves the conversation. Clearly, mean or not, it was a crowd pleaser. That's indicative of the fact most people enjoyed it if they didn't agree with it; then again, that doesn't make it a nice thing to do.
I think those of you arguing that the line in the song last night wasn't offensive to the girl are not being sincere: if three students I don't know singled me out by name in front of 200 other law students at the talent show I'd be pretty pissed off.
John is being a good friend with good intentions, but I agree that this whole thread perhaps creates more drama and prevents already hazy memories of last night from fading away.
John's doing the same thing for which he's critizing people for. If anything, this forum is more "public."
Chill.
I didn't catch the song, because I was too busy drinking, but I heard about it and I think it's fine because it was good-hearted.
You know I told myself I wasn't going to drink last night, but I allowed myself to have one beer at the auction...then I drank a bunch of liquor...then some more beers and more liquor...the next thing I knew I was passed out in someone's apartment. It was awesome.
I think I may have thrown up a little bit somewhere in that apartment. Actually, it might have been a lot. I don't remember much, but I do remember not wanting to move from where I was lying because I didn't want anyone to snag my spot on the couch. Yes, I definitely threw up behind that couch or in a corner somewhere. When I woke up, I kind of felt bad about it so I quietly got the hell out of there so as to not disturb the other people around me. The apartment stank pretty badly so I don't think anyone will notice the throw up for a while. I hope they find it soon though, because I had a hamburger and 2 brats yesterday, and I think a pretty good amount of that came back out of me last night. I felt great afterwards though and I was finally able to fall asleep. Now that I think about it, they had a dog, so he might take care of my little mess for me. Those little bastards will eat anything!
I guess this is only tangentially related to John's original post, but I have a pretty mean hangover, and I just wanted to thank everyone for a good time. Oh, I don't think I ended up hooking with anyone last night, but I woke up with a pretty sore asshole.
You know what, I'm glad I threw up in that dump.
What John is doing with this thread is not the same as the comment at issue last night. Public admonishment in this forum is different than pubilc mockery at the talent show - there were more than 200 people at the talent show last night, and if you think that there are more than 200 people reading the blawg I highly doubt that. Bolder Law, dude, dude, dude... it's pretty bossy to tell people who are advocating for their peers to be 'nice' at public law school events to chill - don't cha think, braaah?
I largely disagree with John's assessment (unless he knows something about this girl's reaction that we don't know), but we should give him props for posting his thoughts under his real name and openly inviting criticism.
Maybe it was a bit mean, but learn to take a joke and move on. End of story.
Wow. I only post here anonymously and I now vote to block the anonymous option. I'm a 1L and was not at the talent show and would have never known who this person was, except for the anon. comment previous to this one. Add the total inappropriateness of the comment as a whole and I say no more anonymous posting.
I don't appreciate John Poor's attack on the audience. The song was funny and just because we laughed does not mean we are terrible people. It was not in bad taste, or vicious. It is harmful to the law school community to accuse the audience of being mean.
Seond, I know the all the people that were mentioned in the song and they are all smart, charismatic people capable of taking a joke. Geez John, give your friend some credit here.
Keep anoymous posting, but have the admins delete the last post. It's true that the post was inappropriate, but likely didn't do a huge amount of harm. 200 people knew who the student was, and the rest of the school would find out on Monday anyway, if they were so inclined, with a question or two.
You're going to be lawyers. Thicken that pathetic thin skin, everybody.
I will add, the post several spots up is completely inappropriate.
In case you're wondering, the post in question is gone, and should have been listed between cadoner and Anonymous at 12:22. As I've said before, please don't mention students by name in this forum.
As for numbers, I can tell you that on last Thursday, for example, we had 438 visits, 1,134 page views, and that 89.26% of our visitors come back again and again. So if you believe that one medium is worse than the other due to numbers, at least ensure your statement is somewhat informed.
Damn good number, H.S. I had no idea the blog was so popular. Do you log I.P. addresses, or are anonymous postings *truly* anonymous?
Any other talent show gossip? I was impressed that a certain dean was a good sport despite a skewering on this blog earlier this week--class act.
I'm not the person in question, but I do talk a lot. I've been teased about it pretty much constantly since high school. I generally take it pretty well, that teasing. I know, however, that it would make a big difference who was doing the ribbing. My friends? I'm cool with that, and it only stings a bit. If it were non-friends? That would suck. Just some perspective from someone who has the same "problem."
About the outing on the board - like I said, "elephant in the room." I thought the important note was that Campos totally cock-blocked me. I mean, seriously, that dude is lecherous. Moreover, if I looked like "girl at issue," I think I would have gotten a much better Property grade.
I'm reposting and I've removed the names to protect the innocent.
I didn't leave that earlier comment, but I kind of feel bad that the person was "outed" in a prior comment, so I think we should refer to her once again as the "girl at issue."
I agree. The girl at issue does have a great rack. And the professor mentioned definitely does have that "creepy old dude" thing about him. He is always on the prowl for young ladies.
I'm posting anonymously because I'm afraid her boyfriend might kick my ass. I hear he can be pretty violent. On a related note, I did go drinking with him once and man, we got so wasted it was great. That guy will drink anything you put in front of him, and he is a funny drunk.
Speaking of drinking, I ended up closing down some dump of a bar on Pearl street last month - I think it was the Sundowner. That place gets packed after hours. I don't know why cause that place is a dump, but I love the barely-legal eye candy that comes in and out of there most nights. Damn, I don't know how I got home that night I was so wasted. Oh man, I remember stumbling out of that sty and throwing up right in the middle of the sidewalk. I walked about halfway down the block and I turned around to see some chump step right where I just ralphed! It was great. I laughed my ass off, but that guy must have been pretty wasted cause he didn't seem too phased.
Oh, now I remember where I was going with this story. You know how sometimes when you drink a lot, it gives you the shits? Well, I had a chipotle burrito for lunch that day, and after drinking so much and throwing up I had to drop a mean brick. Well, unfortunately all the places were closed, and I wasn't about to start knocking on people's doors at 3am to ask if I could go #2. So I decided to just crouch down on someone's porch and take care of business. I would have gone behind a bush, but I didn't want to fall back onto my own crap so I had to hold myself up with the porch's railing. I was so wasted. Unfortunately there wasn't any TP around, so needless to say I had to throw away those boxers the next morning.
The moral of the story: always have a handful of TP in your pocket whenever you go out drinking. You'd be surprised how often you'll actually end up using it.
Anon 1:17, you're not nearly as funny as you think. In fact, it's pretty egotistical to post stuff like this and force the admins to take it down, thereby impairing the ability of this blog to serve as a forum for the whole law school community. Ad hominem attacks on people you know are no longer anonymous are pretty despicable, too, especially when you're posting defamatory material that may or may not be true. You're a mean-spirited, arrogant person, and I just hope you don't succeed in killing this blog and hurting all your classmates (assuming you actually are a student, and not someone with a vested interest in killing this blog for his own selfish, or whimsical reasons).
On a more serious note. I think everything that needed to be said has been said. Can we all just come into classes on Monday and be friends?
Wow...I'm so lost. Between not attending the talent show and missing the "outing" (which is low-brow move by the way), I have no idea what is happening. I'm sure I'll find out Monday.
Sorry, Anon 1:29. I'm just trying to tell a story that will hopefully lighten the mood of this post. It has gotten way too serious.
I wish I could say that I made that story up, but everything in it is absolutely true - I only changed the time and the bar to protect my own identity. Believe me, a handful of toilet paper in your pocket can go a long way.
Are you kidding. Anonymous poster of 11:38 and 1:17 is totally hilarious.
Please keep posting -- your comments have been my only relief from a horrible T-show hangover.
Anonymous at 1:34, I think I need to have the last word here. (Or perhaps the first of the next series of anonymous rants and commentary on alcohol abuse.)
That said, I should mention that I told John earlier today that I would avoid responding to his post, but I think I need to clarify a few things.
First, I wish John had communicated his sentiments to me in person. But I do admire him for defending his friend so diligently. Nevertheless, he and others above this comment seem to be misreading the intent of the band, and in doing so probably making matters worse than they need to be. In fact, John’s probably doing more damage than the song itself.
Rather than talking around it, allow me to clarify the circumstances and reproduce the line that offended John, with the relevant name modified. Keep in mind, of course, that this is one line of about 40 that could have offended John, let alone the friends of other people mentioned in the song. Suffice it to say, however, that myself, JP, and PH opened the second act of the talent show with a song about the law school entitled “One More Month.” The line in question appeared at the end of the second chorus and reads as follows:
“Will RS ever shut up?”
In isolation, that one line out of 40 probably looks pretty bad. But I must emphatically reassure all of you that we bore no ill will towards RS, despite Anonymous 11:38’s comment to the contrary. Indeed, we said far worse about other parties mentioned, but we thought that they would find the song amusing, including RS. (Hence the line at the end of the tune, which reads: “we love you all, won’t you come home with the band?”) Granted, we had a few lines that tested some boundaries, but we cleared those with the relevant folks beforehand.
Did we clear the "offensive" line with RS beforehand? No, because we didn’t think the line was as bad as John apparently does, nor did we think RS would care. In fact, we trusted that she has a sense of humor about herself, and would laugh at the ribbing like a mature adult. If we misjudged RS, then we made a mistake, and I apologize for it. And if we misjudged the impact of the line, then I apologize for that as well.
To suggest, however, that we should be ashamed of ourselves for calling attention to a law student that talks more in class than the three guys on stage, all three of whom are finalists for the “worst gunner of the class of 2007” award…well, that just underlines the irony, doesn’t it?
In any event, I just want to reiterate my apologies to all concerned. I do want to sound a cautionary note, however, as we head towards the final throes of the spring semester: we’re all stressed out, and we all have too much to do, and we all might step on one another’s toes at some point. I might even come off as an arrogant 3L, which would be completely out of character.;-) But please give people their space, assume they have the best of intentions, and don’t go jumping to conclusions without the courtesy of a phone call or an email. And perhaps most importantly, please don’t start impugning the character of this great institution or its students without a little bit of inquiry beforehand. I for one, intend to do so here at CU and in the outside world that follows.
Ok, Anon 1:17, I was just concerned that you were purporting to be a CU Law student, and making up stories about not-so-anonymous students' significant others, just to force the blog to shut down anonymous comments rather than be a party to potential defamation. Free speech is fine, but let's all self-censor a little, at least when we're discussing things that even we don't view as especially important; there's no reason to create a permanent online record that someone can be "pretty violent" and will "drink anything you put in front of him" unless this is noteworthy for some reason.
--Anon 1:29
Opps, I meant anon at 11:49 and 1:17 was hilarious. Sorry, but I don't care about anon 11:38.
I agree that the post at Anon 11:49 was very funny, as were parts of the post at Anon 1:17. My concern was the potential defamatory material in post 1:17, and the fact that the same poster reposted at 1:05 and re-outted “the student in question,” apparently just to be funny.
--Anon 1:29
This blog SHOULD be shut down. At least for now. It's clearly a distraction to studying for finals, which is obviously what most of the posters are trying to do. No way does this blog get so much traffic on a Saturday otherwise. (Although Hakim may cite numbers that prove me wrong.) I don't know. I just know I'm never at my PC on a Saturday, and all of this drama (way overblown, I think) is particularly gripping compared to, say, outlining.
I have never came on to student in question, but have had a very similar experience with Campos. I went to speak with him in is office and there was already someone in there. So, I decided to wait. After a couple of minutes a nice looking girl comes up to speak with him as well. After another couple of minutes, he gets done with the guy in his office. He comes out and invites the girl into his office. I chime in and tell him I was already waiting. His response: This should only take a few minutes - I left about 10 later.
outlining suks
Hey Anon 2:12--should we shut down the major television networks, and blackout radio, too? I hear these can be distracting as well. How about just NOT LOGGING ON if you're so concerned about wasting your time . . . SHEESH.
I think John is right. I loved the talent show in general - made me proud to be among such funny and talented classmates. And I generally enjoyed the song in question - most of the lyrics were good-natured ribbing or complementary-albeit-naughty comments. But the lyric in question unfortunately crossed the line.
I mean, the singers deliberately emphasized that one mean-spirited lyric: they stopped singing, broke from the rhyme scheme, and flatly stated that line in unison. And these 3L singers mostly sung either about other 3Ls or about professors, but this one person was neither 3L nor a professor. And the only thing funny about the lyric was that it was so blatantly cruel.
So, setting aside one’s like or dislike of the person sung about, that public mockery was lame. It sucks to single someone out by surprise, in such a mean way, in such a public forum. I’m sure that if someone singled me out in such a way, I’d be upset. And I imagine that, even if John didn’t know the person sung about, he’d feel uncomfortable with that mean-spirited mockery.
I appreciated Micah’s comment, but I’d rather that he didn’t qualify his apology by saying that he apologizes only for misjudging the person mentioned or only for misjudging the lyric’s impact (rather than just apologizing for the lyric itself). If I were the person in that lyric, I wouldn’t want to have to justify feeling hurt by that insult.
So, anyway, while overall the talent show made me happy to be among such fun and talented people, I thought that one comment sucked. It was lame of these exiting students to single out one lower-classman for public mockery. (And I don’t mean to single out those three singers "without the courtesy of a phone call or an email." But, uh, Micah’s comment there seems a bit ironic, given the circumstances.)
Touché.
Your apology strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. You guys knew exactly what you were doing. You don't need to apologize for misjudging anyone. Your "apology" in effect put any blame for the situation on the reaction of the person you insulted by implying that a "mature" person would not have been insulted. If you're going to apologize for anything, it should be the decision to make a deliberately mean joke in a public forum for the sake of a laugh.
I've apologized directly to RS, and in no uncertain terms. As for reactions, I can't say if she was insulted or not, because she hasn't responded yet. I hope she took the joke as intended, but if not, then that's on me.
The apology by one of the singers did exactly what it should have. It acknowledged that impact should be separated from intent. Even if the intent was not to be mean, if the lyrics had a negative impact on the people in the song, then that deserves an apology.
I agree with earlier anonymous poster that it is totally out of line for John to make these accusations. He called three of his peers "vicious". He told everyone in the audience that we should feel bad for laughing. It seems to me that attacking someone's character is way worse that pointing out someone talks alot in class. I'm one of the people that was sung about as well, and I am way more upset at John than at the singers.
Just in defense of John here, subrosa:
I don't think John said that the three singers are vicious people, only that that one public comment was unfortunately vicious. And you're right that John was chastizing the whole crowd, but isn't it better to publicly criticize a whole crowd of 200 than to publicly criticize a single unsuspecting person (as may have unfortuantely happened last night)?
On other matters, I'm glad that appologizes are going to the appropriate people. Kudos to Micha.
To address one of the comments made above: I know the boyfriend of the person in question, and yes, he is a big dude, and I'm sure that he would STOMP me. But I also know that he is not a violent person.
As for the drinking comment, I have had the pleasure to share some drinks with him, and he does not drink "anything you put in front of him" - only top shelf booze for him (haha). Just kidding. No seriously, in my experience he is a really nice guy and one of my good friends.
I think Anon 1:17 was just joking and trying to be funny.
Has anyone considered that the "person in question" does talk too much and should shut up. It's goddamned irritating.
I totally understand everyone standing up for their friends and so on. However, there is no rule that says we all have to get along or like each other. I'm not OK and you're not OK.
I think it's fine to call it like you see it. If someone's feelings are hurt, that is unfortunate. That said, perhaps insult can an should be an occasion for people to give some serious consideration to the behavior which gave rise to the ridicule.
Now that the wildfire spawned by this post has been allowed to burn out of control for a day, let me add a few words of clarification, and an apology of sorts.
First, let me be clear that I’m not backing down from my original assessment of the effect of those lyrics. I thought the line came off as mean. Nevertheless, I take Micah at his word that the intent wasn’t malicious. I also agree with Micah and others who have suggested that I should have taken more care to investigate the intent behind the lyrics before I posted an accusatory comment on the Blawg. And I acknowledge that the rhetoric that I employed – “vicious,” “ashamed,” etc. – was a little over-the-top as well.
So, I apologized personally to the performers today for impugning their motives publicly, and I want to reiterate that apology here. I also hasten to add that the descriptors I employed – vicious, mean, etc. – referred to the line in the song, not the individuals themselves. Since coming to CU Law, I’ve developed a good deal of respect for all three of them, and based on what they’ve said about the intent behind the performance, I don’t see any reason to change that assessment. I still think the effect of the line was unfortunate, but I realize that the individuals involved probably did not intend for it to come off that way. I won’t ever apologize for sticking up for my friends, but I do apologize for not inquiring as to the underlying motives of the singers before I did so here.
I just want to respond to earlier questions about our readership and whether we log IP addresses. Unless Google Analytics does something I think it shouldn't, we do not log addresses. As for our readership, we had an all-time high of 316 unique visitors and 3,000 page views yesterday, which is almost double our usual dailies.
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