If you have questions, leave 'em in the comments. This is more for 3Ls than anything else, but if anyone else has the knowledge, they're welcome to weigh in.
To kick us off, here's a question from the VT comments below:
"Does anyone know if we really need to get the 'Statement of Notification' notorized? If so, where?"
Answer: no clue. I don't see the word "notification" used in the entire questionnaire. Perhaps you're referring to the Oath of Admission? If so, it looks like you do in fact need to get it notarized, but at this point it looks like you (and I) will be filing a late application, given that you need to have your affidavit notarized 30 days before you actually apply.
34 comments:
It looks like the last two pages of the Application (Statement of Verification and the Authorization and Release pages) are the two that need to be notarized.
Also, I've heard questions about the Driving Record. They can be submitted after the application under separate cover (without incurring the late fee), but could delay the application. Section P Supplementary Documentation.
Thanks, H.S., for this post.
To clarify my question, do we need to get the "Statement of Verification" and the "Authorization and Release" notorized? If so, how and where do we do this? Does anyone know if Cindy is a notory public?
H.S., I'm not sure what the "Oath of Admission" you are referring to is. What is this? As to the "Authorization and Release" and the "Statement of Verification," the instructions state that these must be "signed, dated, and notorized NO MORE than 30 days prior to the date your application is filed" (emphasis added). Therefore, I think we're both alright on the May 1st deadline, right?
Thanks,
Befuddled
AND HS re-read Section A, paragraph 3(a)(1). "The statement must be signed, dated and notarized no more than 30 days prior to the date of your application."
Doesn't this mean that if you are turning in the Application on May 1, then the notarization must have been in the last month (As in after April 1 but before May 1)?
Befuddled, I agree with you on the timing of the notarization.
As for Notarization, check with your bank, they will often do it for free for existing customers. Also, there may be notaries at shipping locations (such as a UPS store, or possibly Kinkos/FedEx). I'm going to use my local bank for the notarization.
Here's another outstanding question:
For references, do we need to include 3 people for every locality in which we have lived, or 3 people for every locality in which we have lived, each time we have lived there? (For instance, if we moved from our home towns to go to college, and then moved back four years later, do we need 3 people who knew us during EACH of these periods, or just 3 people who knew us at some point when we lived in this town? Any thoughts?).
Along the same line, "locality" is defined as a "geographic region" and "one may assume that clusters of cities and/or suburbs within an approximate 300 miles constitute one locality." Does this mean that ONLY cities/suburbs can be considered one locality, or anything within a 300 mile radius (e.g., from Denver to Aspen, for example)?
Finally, does anyone know what the bar examiners actually ask our references?
Thanks.
How about a free credit report? Has anyone found a way to get one? What are we supposed to do with this information, once we know it?
Anon 1. I read it as 3 for every locality. That is it. If you lived in one place and moved away and moved back...I read this passage as allowing you to use the same people so long as they knew you when you lived there.
Anon 2. I'm not sure about the where to get one, but the idea is too make sure of any conflicts on your report that you should clear up, such as notice of collection on an unpaid balance. Just look at it, make sure there is nothing scary on the report and that is all.
Thanks, NJL, for the credit info.
I also read the "locality" question to be asking for people who knew you "at some point in time." The question doesn't say that you must list people who can vouch for you throughout your stay in a particular place, (or during your different visits to that same place), but merely who knew you while you were there . . . it seems counterintuitive, however, because if you've lived in the same town for 10 years, you could just list people who knew you during years 1-2, right? Maybe that's why they also request a timeline of every place you've lived, so that they can follow up and ask for more references if something seems fishy. Thoughts?
Also, any thoughts on the locality=cities/suburbs vs. locality=300 mile radius?
Anon...That has puzzled me... I haven't thought hard about the issue because I had enough contacts who lived within a few miles.
Why in the world is it 300 miles? Even in Texas, that is an insane distance (the Houston metropolitan Area and San Antonio are only 200 miles away--so could i use people who live in Houston, even though that defeats the whole purpose). In other words, I have no clue as to what the locality rule means.
My application is already in. The week after I mailed it, I had people notify me that they received paperwork they had to fill out and fax back in. Since that time, I have had at least 7 people notify me of the same. They included references from where I lived, former employers and attorney references. They check everything.
Um, so as to the references... did they have to live in the locality with you or just know you when you lived there?
I'm not sure if this was asked by one of the anons, but clarification would be appreciated.
I have assumed, I believe correctly, that they needed to know you when you lived in that locality. Two of my sources for Texas have since moved away to other locations, but they knew me when we both lived there.
They had to know me as having lived in said locality- not necessarily a roommate or something. So, say, someone I worked with, or a neighbor, or something. Someone that could verify my existence at that physical place. I had multiple addresses in one city, and I did not have to give names of people for each address, just each city. However, they checked not only those references, but names of previous supervisors NOT listed as references.
Just to be clear, I think we need 3 people WHO LIVED IN THE SAME LOCALITY AT THE SAME TIME we lived there, regardless of whether they subsequently moved away (and, maybe, regardless of whether they lived there the ENTIRE TIME we lived there). That is, we cannot use a friend who lived in Boston while we were in New York, even if that friend knew us while we were in New York, and can vouch for the fact that we were there . . .
I'm taking this from Question 11, which requests "the names and addresses of three persons in EVERY locality where you have lived . . .with whom you are personally acquainted" (emphasis in orginal).
Does anyone disagree with this assessment?
I think the outstanding questions are: (1) do we need people who can vouch for us the entire time (or the various, non-contiguous times) that we were in a locality; and (2) does "locality" just apply to any 300-mile radius, or only clusters of suburbs/cities.
Finally, to the anon who has already filed his/her application, do you know whether the references/supervisors/attorneys were contacted by email or snail mail? Do you know what they were asked?
Thanks.
Free credit reports can be obtained from annualcreditreport.com, which is a government-sponsored site implementing some statute requiring free annual credit reports to people. It's pretty easy, and you can set your mind at ease that this site is legitimate by reading the "Credit score (United States)" article on Wikipedia.
If we filled out "Colorado" on our MPRE test form, do we need to do anything else to send our MPRE scores to the bar examiners? Anyone?
You'd be surprised- lots of people are notaries. I asked one of the legal assistants at my firm to notarize my application- many legal assistants, paralegals, and even attorneys are notaries. And I believe at least one person in the law school building is a notary- ask around.
Also, I recommend calling the examiners with questions if you have any. They're very nice and very responsive.
I have a logistical question, if anyone has thoughts . . .
How many of you are doing the online application, versus the paper application?
If you're doing the online application, and need to explain something (like lack of references for when you lived abroad, for instance), how do you explain it? The online forms for these questions just ask for names and addresses, and don't provide room to explain anything.
Has anyone dealt with this?
Forms were sent to my people via snail mail and instructed to fax it in. The form asked about why I left or quit, character and fitness questions (criminal/alcohol/drugs/psychosis/bipolar/schizophrenic?) and overall questions about whether or not I was fit and had a good character. Employers were asked about whether or not I would be eligible to be rehired (along with the other questions.)
I only know about the snail mail ones- there could be more routes- but these are the ones who have given me a head's up. I was really only worried about one former boss (hated the guy and quit with no notice), but I hope all the positive references will outweigh the negatives. You can't leave anything out. I'm sure I'm not the only one who ever burned a bridge in my past- I hope.
anon-
I am filing the online application and have had to explain various things (including a lack of reference). I simply explained this using the "Explanation Page," which though designed for questions 23-43 can be used to explain any question. you just mail that in with your application
I sent the MPRE peeps an email asking if I needed to do anything further. They said I was golden.
As for the rest of my bar application: I AM SCREWED!! I haven't done anything.
Did anyone deal with an incomplete history of addresses? (E.g., "I sublet a place in Atlanta, but don't even remember the street name" or "I lived in an apartment, but don't remember the box number")? How did you deal with this.
Old pay stubs and credit card records.
Kelly in in Clinc and Kari in the Dean's Office are both notaries.
You people stress me out.
FYI, I don't know of a single person who had any problems with the bar examiners. It's five old bitties in an old office downtown, and I'm fairly certain they don't read 75% of the apps. I imagine they just read the ones that say "Yes, I was a crackhead."
Where do we take the piss test . . . and where the hell do we mail the cup after we’re done? Does anyone know any ways to beat these things?
I know someone who had a problem with the bar examiners and was not cleared to sit for the test last July . . .
Anon,
Do tell (without revealing confidences, of course). What was your friend's problem? Criminal? Drugs? Non-disclosure of parking tickets?
Re: unknown addresses. You can also get these off of the Credit Reports obtained from the website listed above. I also just discovered that I have a $53 remaining balance with AMEX from an account I closed seven years ago. Whee!!
NJL: just caught your comment on the 30-day requirement. Nice catch.
"Where do we take the piss test . . . and where the hell do we mail the cup after we’re done? Does anyone know any ways to beat these things?"
Huh?!?!? This has to be a joke.
I *think* that's a joke, but my understanding is that we *will* be mailed fingerprint cards after sending in our applications that we must get executed at the police department and send back in.
Re fingerprint cards - if you hand deliver your application, they give you the card right away.
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