Here's an email from a 3L that recently went out to some of the 2008 class:
Hello fellow members of the class of 2008-
I recently found out that our class is not contributing tuition deposits to our graduation. The flyers were put in our mailboxes to waive the $200 refund we deposited upon acceptance to go towards our graduation. So...we do not have enough money for graduation and we will have to pay for tickets to have family members/friends attend the graduation. As far as I know, other classes have had success in getting these tuition deposits waived and used towards graduation and therefore haven't had this problem.
I know everyone is broke but $200 really is going to make any difference in our overall debt so please sign the attached waiver and give it to CF or MW or put it in one of their mailboxes. If you are out of state, you can email C with an electronic signature waiving the deposit. [address omitted]
Please tell other people to waive their deposits too so that we won't be charged for tickets to our own graduation and so we can actually give a class gift. It might suck right now but in a few years when you have money, you'll be glad you contributed to our school. Plus- it's not like we go to some rich private school like DU!
JM
115 comments:
Collectively, our class is a little less rah!rah! than most classes. Also, the tuition waiver was confusing.
The snarky response from SP "cluttering my mailbox" was a personal highlight.
Here's the thing that BK doesn't understand- he is concerned about giving money to people he doesn't even know-the gift is FROM the class and not TO the class. No matter what we choose, it is simply NOT going to benefit us personally. There was a forum- that forum came up with 4 choices that were then narrowed down to 2. Clearly, not everyone's choice was going to be one of the 2 remaining. That's just how it is. When the class gift will be presented, it won't say "from the Class of 2008, except X, Y, Z, and BK (as they didn't agree with the gift). Everyone had a chance to express their opinions and now everyone has to participate regardless of the final decisions about the gift.
Do share SP's snarky response some of us "uncool" 3Ls didn't get JM's letter...
Paraphrasing is acceptable, I just want to understand the blog comments.
185 days til graduation... not that I'm counting down.
SP said not to clutter up his inbox with idle chatter. It was that brief. I think only "the offenders" got the email.
No- everyone who was initially on JM's email list got his email- it was a reply-to-all moment.
No, I think the only 3Ls that got the original email were the people who have yet to sign the tuition waivers. Which includes me. Not because I didn't want to, but because I've been hella busy and kept putting it off or forgetting the paper at home. I suspect there are more people like me than there are people like BK. For my money, though, AA's response was the best. Not pithy and cryptic like SP's, but vividly detailed. For those who missed it, an excerpt:
some of us after a while gave up working out and then turned ourselves into fat turkeys with double chins and extra layers of fats;
how lack of physical exercise slows down our thought process;
how we run out of breath when climbing those stairs at school and we wonder "geeeee, am I in my twenties or in my eighties?";
how we have to buy new clothes/suits because the old ones dont fit anymore. Then, we stare at ourselves in the mirror in disbelief and hold and release our breaths "fat not fat, fat not fat".
I signed the tuition waiver and selected school gym for the same reason that AA described.
However, I also got the email from JM as well. I don't think she knew who signed and who did not sign the form, but JM deserves some credit for trying to encourage a little rah!rah! to our "boring" class.
Interesting. I definitely signed my waiver, but I got the email (I'm anon 6:48). I'll have to check to see if it somehow got lost or whatever, because the entire class was not included in the mail list, as far as I can tell. Maybe that's part of the problem, if I'm not alone in signing it and not having it "counted."
Haha. Yeah, she was interestingly "selective" in her email.
Freakin ridiculous.
So someone explain what this waiver is and where the money comes from. I am going to have to give $200 out of pocket?
It is NOT out of pocket. We all submitted a $200 deposit when we agreed to matriculate here at CU Law.
This money has been held by the CU Foundation for the past couple years, and the waiver form permits the Foundation to release that money to the class.
I realize that I'm probably close to alone on this, but does anyone else find the amount of money being spent on graduation absurd?
This isn't meant to knock MW or the class officers at all; they're doing what's always been done and what is probably wanted of them. But come on -- the youngest of us is 24, and most of us are at LEAST a few years older. So who wants the fuss? It's graduation. We've all done it. We all chose to apply and got through law school -- this isn't special, it's what you're SUPPOSED to do. Why are we throwing ourselves a $20k+ party?
It strikes me as the same as 20somethings who still throw themselves birthday parties. Everyone's got one. Get over yourself, or in the case of graduation, ourselves.
So who originally sent out this message? And am supposed to check may mailbox more than once a semester? (sigh) And by when is this waiver needed? And what was the gift that was chosen? A gym? Won't the homeless people get mad that law students are using their showers?
Maybe it's just me, but I think that BK has pretty close to right on. I think that MW and crew are doing a great job, but shouldn't we be paying for our own commencement before we start paying for a class gift? If they are unable raise enough for money for both a gift and commencement, we should pay for graduation first, not a gift.
From BK:
"You may not know this, but the photo sittings that we just paid $25 dollars for, well the sittings actually only cost $16 per person. The extra $9? Yeah, well the '08 officers decided that they wanted to buy a frame for the composite rather than let the Dean's office give us one for free (Frame cost: $600). If we need money so bad, why are we volunteering to pick up that tab?"
Wtf?
I have an idea for a class gift:
spend all of the money raised on doobies and other hallucinogens - then all of us can forget the last three years, at least for a little while.
Maybe BK has a point, but the way he approached the whole thing is wrong...and somewhat meanspirited. The emails are just kneejerk reactions.
We should be paying for graduation first. No doubt about it. We should not be picking up the tab for the composite frame! That's ridiculous. The class gift should exist and everyone should be ok with the choices not because we know how many people voted, etc but because everyone had a chance to vote. Whether they took that chance or not simply doesn't matter.
As for the class fundraising, there are indeed some things going on-- it is not the first time I heard that we are being charged more for things...the class of 08 is requesting more money than they need for events and then stashing some in our ellusive private class account that nobody knows anything about. There is no transparency there -- it never existed from the very beginning. We should know (1) how much we fundraised, (2) how much we need for commencement, (3) how much we need for the class gift, (4) how much is the school contributing to commencement, etc. None of this info has been given to us and I have a feeling it never will. Maybe an audit of the class account is needed.
Whatever happens, someone tell these people to stop sending me emails. I get enough as it is.
And to be honest, I have no problem charging my loved ones for graduation tickets if it means I get an extra $200 at the end of the year. I'm poor. Plus, my guests would be from entirely out-of-state. Maybe they don't come, anyway. Who knows?
Point is, I don't care about giving a gift. I already gave the school close to $100k in tuition and that should be enough. Walk your lazy asses to the school's free gym like the rest of us.
I apologize for selecting reply to all when I got the email from JM. I thought it important to correct her facts, and point out the class officers questionable money-making tactics. Why should anyone spend $200, when we don't know what it is really being spent for in the first place?
Knee-jerk as my reply to JM is, that doesn't answer the question of why we are putting every class that comes after us first in priority for the fundraising solicited under the guise of paying for commencement. '08 officers, what are you doing with our money?
The previous message was from Brandon Karpen.
Joe C.:
"It is NOT out of pocket. We all submitted a $200 deposit when we agreed to matriculate here at CU Law."
I don't know about you, but that $200 came out of my pocket.
I graduated a few years back but (back then) the class used the various fundraising events (auction, talent show, etc.) to pay for graduation and the tuition waivers to pay for the class gift.
It was totally doable.
What has changed?
You are right. I hope everyone else knows what was intended by my message.
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
How many graduation tickets do we get? If we have extras can we just give them to someone who needs one? I bet some people won't evn go to graduation...
And how much are the gowns, etc... maybe tuition waivers should go to that.
I didn't get any emails. I wonder if I flunked out and didn't notice. Very possible.
Can we get pink gowns this year... pink is the new black right?
"spend all of the money raised on doobies and other hallucinogens - then all of us can forget the last three years, at least for a little while."
"Point is, I don't care about giving a gift. I already gave the school close to $100k in tuition and that should be enough. Walk your lazy asses to the school's free gym like the rest of us."
- Two of the most sensible points I've seen made during all of law school.
Definition of gift: something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
I would like to place emphasis on the voluntarily part ...
I have an idea: lets vote if priority should be given to commencement or a gym for lazy people.
there is no reason why we cannot have both the class gift and commencement (without having to pay for tickets). Why is this more difficult for our class than it was for all the classes before us? How did the class officers in previous years manage to have both the gift and commencement? From the outside, it seemed like MW was making great strides in raising money. Where did all the money raised go?
A gym ($30,000 - $40,000) is substantially more expensive than artwork (see butterfly painting) ... which was what last year's class left us to enjoy.
Let's pay for graduation first and see what we have left over for a gift.
I have a solution courtesy of our good friend Chuck Norris:
Five Total Gyms for $2000 total.
JM sent the email to everyone in her address book--it wasn't selective beyond that.
It would be nice to get a report on where we stand with fundraising, in terms of dollar amounts. And an explanation of the picture frame thing.
For clarity, the commencement ceremony will happen no matter what. I assume, anon 2:12, you meant the class gift + graduation reception.
It's true that both the gift and reception can happen, but this can only happen if either 1) the waivers are signed or 2) each reception attendee is charged. Though JM wasn't very clear about this in her email, but this is the primary reason why the class officers are trying to get people to sign the waivers: they want to have both a gift and reception, and they don't want to resort to charging tickets for reception attendees. Also, the advantage to having the waivers signed is that it gives the treasurer a more accurate budget to work with for the commencement and reception.
My understanding is that 3Ls are somewhat resistant to signing the waivers. One of the officers told me that people who are asked to sign respond by (sometimes rudely) complaining about the gift options, and about the fact that our class has to pay for graduation. Well here's reality: 1) Every class pays for its own graduation, 2) Our class gift options are substantial, 3) We need money to cover both the gift and a graduation reception, 4) if we don't have enough money for both, the reception will suffer because fund raising efforts have always explicitly been for the benefit of the class gift.
I think it's unfortunate that BK is being so sour and vocal about his money because 1) he has not signed the waiver, and 2) he does not attend/contribute events that benefit the class of 2008. His out of pocket investment = $0
As for the composites, I don't know enough to make an informed comment. Unlike BK, I will educate myself on the facts before speaking out.
Attacking me (BK) doesn't answer any of the issues raised.
Additionally, 1. I understand the facts as explained to me by the class officers; 2. I have attended events and contributed plenty beyond my tuition costs (out of pocket expenses: several thousand dollars); and 3. Why should I sign a tuition waiver when the class is going to extort it from me later anyway?
In the interest of getting complete and accurate information, can MW or another '08 officer provide us with an accounting of our classes funds and if its true that there is a priority being put on a class gift over graduation costs?
I am a little surprised that MW, who I think of as a real stand up guy, would make the voluntary class gift mandatory. Can someone inside the decision making body provide some insight?
While I agree that BK has a sour attitude, if what he is saying about the composite and spending priority is true, I am more than just a little disappointed in our classes leadership.
BK, I am among the "chosen ones" who have received all the emails, but I don't know (and probably don't want to know) the accounting details. Please explain to me and everyone how the officers are "hijacking the fund-raising done in the name of paying for commencement."
p.s. SP's response was a classic "I'm a busy law student, don't bother me" response. I'm actually surprised we didn't get the same response from RS! Bwahahaha!
Reading this thread sheds some light as to why more people dont run for officer positions.
Some of you would do a lot better for yourselves if you just said "yes thank you" or "no thank you" and went on your way.
Holy crap, the level of neuroses around here is astounding. I'm not sure why people are making such a fuss over $200 when we've been constantly reamed with expenses for the past 2 years, ranging from tuition to books to tests, etc.
Nonetheless, is it really necessary for the officers to "jack" the entire refund? Why not just charge people individually for reception tickets? That seems like the more "equitable" solution anyway given that there is simply no possibility that everyone will sign the waiver.
As for the class gift, spending $40,000 (is it really that much?) for a law school "gym" is ludicrous. I'm all for generosity, but building a gym in the law school is about as useful as burning the $40,000 as a sacrificial offering to the gods. Whoever came up with this gym idea needs to have their judgment checked.
This is what the blawg needed to get out of the doldrums.
Some good ol' fashioned controversy.
I'll get the popcorn.
I think the issue is becoming obscure at this point. If enough people sign the waivers, then both class gift (whatever it may be) and reception are possible (we don't know if this is true due to lack of transparency).
But let's assume that it is true. People who refuse to sign the waiver think all of the money is going to class gift only to the exclusion of the reception. The whole problem can be solved if enough people sign the waivers. I think this is what JM was getting to.
If you do not like the gym idea, then perhaps you should sign your waiver and vote for other class gift options.
Also the class gift options were discussed in townhall meetings, and people voted for the options. If you don't like all of the top three/four options that your classmates voted for, but you yourself has not voted at all, then stop bitching.
Another side issue that seems to obscure the main issue is the choice of class gift. If you don't like the gym idea, then as I said before, vote for something else. Here, it will be helpful if the class officers can show us which how many people voted for option 1, 2, and 3, so that people (who are about to sign the waivers) can really think and vote for the one option they want.
As to opinions about the gym idea and "lazy ass" correlation, I think people who voted for the gym considered other things besides their "lazy asses." There are saftety and time concerns as well. It's not easy for a girl to walk across the campus at 11 p.m. after all day reading at the library. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is riskier for a girl to walk across the campus late at night then guys. Believe it or not, not all people are saints or hippies in Boulder. I used to walk home from school or walk accross the campus often late at night, and I can't count the times when I was harassed and hassled by some douchbags just because I'm a girl who is walking alone. I was not wearing a slutty outfits during those incidents. Once or twice, I was bundled up due to cold weather. Despite my "head to toe covering" outfit, I was harassed twice in one week. Then why can't she just drive there? Yes, she can drive, then it also means parking in some obscure spot that may be far away from the gym.
As to the issue of time, don't you think the time of walking back and forth can be saved if a gym is in the building. I don't know about you, but I like working out with weights for an hour - intense and focused without any distractions - and then after that, just hit the shower and go back to studying or working in school.
So there are more factors involved in deciding to vote for the school gym than lazy ass. I know I will not be able to use the school gym if we decide that as the class gift, but I do want to leave some sort of legacy. To tell you the truth, I don't even know where this butterfly picture is. I would prefer to have a class gift that is useful for incoming students than a picture that nobody cares about.
I should apologize to CF, JC, TW and MW for the comments regarding comments like hijacking and underhanded; my intent was to take literary license to describe what is going on with our funds. However, I realize, now, that instead of making my statement stronger, it just made it stupider.
The above initialed officers do a very good job, and I think that all of them have the classes best intentions in mind. And while I may disagree with their priorities, I don't mean to disparage the hard work that they have done for us. If I have given anyone the impression that they are not thinking of us first, let me say now, I don't believe that to be the case.
With that said, however, I do think that we, as a class need to re-evaluate our priorities. Seeing the amount of discussion on this board, and the amount of emails I have gotten supporting what I am saying tell me that there is a disconnect somewhere. Maybe the majority of the class wants to pay for a gym before our commencement, and I am out in right field, but judging from this and the emails, I don't think it to be the case. I understand the issues fully, I just don't agree with the chosen course.
With that said, I am finished with discourse. By questioning the spending of our class I never meant to insult anyone personally. I'm sure that by disparaging me, peoples true intentions were to disagree with my decision (at least that's what I'm telling myself).
BK
This is a little bit funny. If you'll recall various posts on this blog from last spring, the class gift was controversial for the class of 2007 as well. At least you guys are getting the fighting out of the way in November instead of waiting until the month before graduation to choose a class gift.
And for the record, the class of 2007 did not leave butterfly art work. We made a contribution to LRAP.
I agree with the gym because the process that BK is calling for already occured. We were all given the chance to come up with any idea we wanted. Then, the ideas were narrowed down to four. Then, we were all given the chance to vote! Those who didn't take those opportunities should just shut up.
Why should we all have to go through this again because you were not paying attention or you were bothered by too many emails and chose not to respond? This whole process happened and just because you didn't get your way it doesn't mean that we need to start over. Sorry. We can't have a redo in hopes that maybe next time your choice will make it into the finals.
For those asking for a little more much needed transparency from the class officers, I think that is valid. We have not heard one update on our fundraising in the last 2+ years. I don't know why this is such a secret. It is our money. One way or another, we all contributed, but we are being kept completely in the dark. That's unacceptable. Plus, what's with the composite frame? Is it true that we volunteered to pay for it?????
I don't think that BK was asking for a re-vote on the items considered for the class gift. I think that he was trying to get commencement paid for before purchasing the gift.
Also, I read the comment about him not having any friends - who ever wrote that was the real jerk.
I feel so left out to not be on JM or SP's email lists.
Anon at 11:51 AM, November 08, 2007 said:
"I graduated a few years back but (back then) the class used the various fundraising events (auction, talent show, etc.) to pay for graduation and the tuition waivers to pay for the class gift.
It was totally doable.
What has changed?"
...A LOT.
Here's what has changed: it's the opposite now. The class of '08 "class fundraising" has gone to the class gift (which, at 25K or so, is huge) - and the tuition waiver is being used to pay for graduation, thus the current controversy and lack of graduation funds.
It's hard to evaluate the situation without knowing what amount are typical for class gifts at CU Law. Is 25K high, low, what?
Last year's class gift was about average, at $8,000.
This year's class gift will be about $25,000. (!!!) Clearly, the class raised a lot of money - a lot more money than other classes. This money is not raised by any one person - it's raised by the class and for the class.
So, we're giving a unnecessarily and ridiculously huge class gift and we don't have enough graduation funds. Sigh. Graduation is more important to me than funding a huge class gift. I don't care about giving a million dollar class gift - it may stoke some egos to do so, but I don't think it's in the best interests of the class.
Why can't we use some of the class gift money and use it for graduation???? That gets my vote.
Seconded.
"This money is not raised by any one person - it's raised by the class and for the class." -thelawstudentformerlyknownas
I'm not going to dispute that the money is for the class, but I argue that the money is clearly not raised "by the class." I can only think of a handful of people (the class officers, esp. MW) who have put forth significant effort and personal time to raise money.
It is true that the money comes from all the students who go to bar nights, attend the talent show, buy auction items and CU Law apparel--but it is the officers who solicit local businesses/law firms/professors for auction items, setup bar nights & DJs, organize the talent show, manage the sale of apparel, collect money, and manage finances accordingly.
As a past leader of a small student group, I have done only a fraction of what the officers have done and it was a huge pain in my ass. I commend the officers for their hardwork.
However, I also believe the money should be spent for the class. I think the majority should rule, and if a majority wants to prioritize a nice reception, then so be it. If a majority decides on a school gym, that's fine too. I don't know how this should be decided, but the actions by the officers so far have clearly brought up a lot of controversy which needs to be addressed. If these were just executive decisions (which I believe are often necessary), then I'm fine with that too.
BK, I think you're already assuming that the school gym is the class gift. WE don't know that. Ask the class officers, which option is getting the most votes, and if you don't like that, then get your friends and others to sign and to vote for other options.
Class officers, show us how much you raised so far, the estimates of the gifts, and the estimate of the reception. So that people who did not sign the waiver can make informed decision on option to vote for.
Anon 6:46, anon 11:51 here. If I recall correctly my class spent about $20k on graduation (figure on approx. 1,800), and then endowed a $25k scholarship, for a total of $45k. (Each graduate received 10 tickets each and after that they could receive extra tickets if they needed them.)
We are the only class to ever fully endow a scholarship and it is doubtful that we could have endowed it except for the unfortunate death of one of our classmates. We were the first class to suggest the tuition confirmation deposit waivers and about 1/2 of the class released their deposits.)
If you are attempting to spend $40k on a gym AND have a nice reception after graduation, that's going to be really, really tough.
I'll skip the reception.y
The class gift last year was around $15,000.
Part of the reason that this year's class has so much money is from historically overstating funding requests. The class officers have certainly done a commendable job of fundraising, but its a bit tainted by a lack in transparency and honesty. Charging people's grandparents and siblings money to attend graduation seems like ridiculous notion compared to spending $40,000 on a gym or an alternative class gift of that amount.
FYI
$40K for the gym is NOT the estimated cost. Some earlier poster just asserted the estimate at $30K-$40K. I'm not sure where he's getting his (mis)information.
It is actually at $20K-$25K.
Running outside on the bike path = free
Bike path maintenance = $$$
Maintenance money which we already pay as a good tax payers.
People just find MW or CF and sign your waivers then we can talk about how much money we have after that.
Regarding Gym and Graduation. I don't really care about either. As long as I get a peice of paper saying I graduated, I am happy.
So to reference an earlier post regarding my tuition waiver. "No, thank you."
I received the email that MW sent out this morning regarding fund-raised money, and am happy so see that they are going to be addressed. I am however very disappointed that the officers are refusing to put commencement costs before graduation costs.
Graduation costs should come first. I would like someone to explain to me why we are putting a class gift as a priority. Btw, I like the gym idea, but not when it comes at the expense of our commencement costs, etc. Lets get our priorities strait.
I received the same email and, while I appreciated the attempt to clarify some issues, I didn't feel like the email answered many of the questions that need an answer! Moreover, I definitely agree with the post above- the cost of the graduation reception should come first. I am 100% sure that most of our class members, clearly not including the class officers, would agree. I understand that the officers worked hard on fundraising, but that doesn't entitled them to being "unwilling" to use class gift money to pay for the graduation reception. The officers seem to be alone in this decision, which is at least partially why they are having a hard time getting the waivers signed. The officers work hard and have priorities but should not forget that their purpose is to represent the class, not just themselves.
I can't see any point in a reception. Loud music? Not interested. Crowds of people I don't know? Not interested. Hors D'ouvres and soda pop? Not interested (cheaper elsewhere).
Someone please explain why I (not you) would want a reception? It seems like self-congratulatory self-centered party. I'd much rather spend money on our legacy to the school than a overdone one-time party.
I really do want to know (I hope to be persuaded).
Reason to have an evening bash: Blow off steam, see friends and classmates one last time, celebrate our accomplishment.
Reason to have a reception: Same as above, but for families, children, non-boozers (apparently not smokers, though, ha, ha, ha).
Reasons to have a class gift: Legacy, something to show others upon return at homecoming.
All of these are "nice to have," but none are necessities.
The officers have prioritized legacy over temporary enjoyment of a party. MW campaigned on the premise of having a great class gift, and we elected him. Personally, the pomp and circumstance and legacy isn't that important to me, I would rather have a place to see everyone one last time. But the choice has been made, and I won't lose any sleep over it.
I don't think that email was not intended to answer all the questions that "need an answer." That's why they're holding a town hall meeting.
I suggest that you attend. I'll be there.
I don't have a job, and $200=a month of groceries. Therefore, when MW approached me about my tuition deposit waiver, I said, "No thanks."
What happened? MW (and now JM) have continued to harass me regarding my waiver. Clearly, "no thanks" was inadequate. Perhaps I should have been more forceful.
What really offends me about all of this is that a gift is supposed to be voluntary. As far as I'm concerned, my waiver either goes to a gift for future classes, or a gift for our class. It's NOT voluntary if I'm being harassed about signing my waiver.
Well, apparently MW and the rest of the officers are now planning on approching us to give money for our immediate family to attend graduation! Perhaps they figured that not many are going to say "no, thanks" to that!
Our office usually picks up the gaps in graduation funding, so it's odd that MW is running around trying to cover a tab that the dean's office often takes care of. I know I told him I'd "get him busted down to my privates" if he didn't make up the shortfall, but no one in the law school ever takes me seriously, so why should he? MW's usually a little more anti-bureaucratic than this, but still I'm glad that I'll be able to hold dinners for more students at my house on CU Law's tab.
I love the gym idea and don't care about the deposit, but would however, be pissed about my family having to spend money on graduation. So if the choice is make all family and friends pay for graduation or not give a gift, I vote for the latter. It may seem silly, but my family has sacrificed plenty of money along the way to get me here and paying for tickets would not be easy for them...depending on the price. I'd much rather get my $200 deposit back and use it to buy tickets for them! That said, MW specifically told me months ago to sign the waiver because the class has raised enough money so that you don't have to pay for graduation and I signed the waiver for that reason...if I lose my waiver and have to pay for graduation, I'm going to be very upset with MW. I mean, what is he trying to do...be BM (ya know, the guy that got us our nice new building and is like the KING of CU Law forever!!!) I think I'm going to get his profile tatttooed on my chest
BM is a god. You are not to disgrace his name with your filthy mortal fingers.
As a first step, we need to conceptually untangle the graduation reception from the class gift: these are two separate costs, and should be treated as such, and any effort to cross-subsidize one at the expense of the other needs to be discussed and justified, regardless of tradition up to this point. And the specific choice of a class gift (scholarship, gym, or other) should be treated as a separate matter altogether.
Many of us are only now learning that students foot the bill for our own graduation reception…yes a bummer, but it is one of many things we aren't told before we commit to CU Law…we've gotten this far, we'll get over this too. The actual cost of this event entirely depends what we want to do -- we have complete control over how much we spend: $0 for no reception, $20K for a big bash, and lots of variations in between.
In contrast, most/all of us understood from the get-go that students paid for the class gift. The class leaders have worked hard to offer us plenty of chances to contribute to this fund over the past 2.5 years, explicitly stating where the money will go ("to support class gift for Class 2008, etc"). Unlike the blank-slate of a graduation reception, there are some constraints with the class gift fund: with only 6 more months left for 3Ls, there's not much more time for substantially growing this fund. Also, the use of the class gift fund is constrained by the extent we honor the representations made to past contributors, who may or may not have donated if they thought the funds were going to purposes besides the class gift.
Some current proposals (and the apparent CU tradition) suggest subsidizing the graduation reception costs from the existing class gift funds. Like all subsidies, this encourages free-riding and will distort the choice of reception options. RE: free-riding: a class-gift subsidy will reward those who contributed little/nothing to the class-gift, allowing them to unfairly enjoy the benefit of a graduation event disproportionate to their actual individual support of it. In otherwords, another student is involuntarily picking up the tab for their friends and family to have a good time. RE: distortions in the reception considerations: with some/most of the costs perceived as 'covered' by a large class-gift subsidy, the incentive is to plan an event where the costs exceed what they otherwise would if the full unsubsidized costs had to separately raised to pay for the event. In shorthand, it's like finding a $20 bill on the sidewalk right outside your favorite store -- odds are you will soon be buying stuff you don't necessarily need.
To avoid these problems, and more fairly distribute the costs of the graduation reception, the event can be planned to cover its own costs, free of a general subsidy from the current balance of the class gift fund. This might be done as follows:
Planning:
1. Determine the type of reception students are willing to pay for: get approximate costs for (at least) 3 options for receptions (low, medium, higher quality fixin's and costs).
2. Poll the class via that Zoomerang online survey tool. For each option, describe the type of food/beverage offered, and the estimated per-ticket cost (calculated based on the attendance numbers of past years), and for each ticket price ask students the number of tickets they'd likely purchase (directly or indirectly…explained below).
3. Extrapolate the results to the full class size (given the usual low survey participation rates) to identify which option(s) (if any) are within range of break-even, via ticket sales and supplemental fundraising.
4. If the revenue from projected ticket sales doesn't come relatively close to the lowest cost reception option, we don't hold a post-ceremony reception...bowing to our collective wishes.
5. If the project ticket sales approach or exceed the lowest-cost option, calculate a per-ticket "value" for use in fundraising via ticket sales (see below).
= = = = Fund-raising via Ticket Sales and Events
Graduation reception funds can be raised by selling tickets to the reception and holding supplemental fundraising events, a la Dark Horse happy hours, etc.
= = Ticket Sales
The following mechanism allows for students who have waived their $200 to the class gift to convert that donation into however many graduation reception tickets they need, and give them options for effectively 'cashing out' the remaining balance, or leaving it as a donation. And it gives students who don't wish to waive their $200 the ability to purchase tickets a la carte -- free of pressure tactics.
6. Students who already waived their $200 deposit to the -class gift- fund can opt to receive tickets at a discounted rate, up to the $200 waiver amount. For example if the per-ticket value is calculated as $22 in Step 5 above, and the agreed-upon discount was 10%, the student could receive as many as 10 tickets ($200 waiver / ($22*10%) = 10 tix) in exchange for their waiver. The aggregated value of all student waiver-ticket exchanges is transferred from the class gift to graduation reception fund.
7. Students who've not already signed over their $200, can still do so, and would receive the same discounted exchange offer for tickets.
8. Students who don't waive their $200 deposit have the option to buy tickets a la carte, at the full ticket value (no discount). In the same hypo, this student would pay $22 per ticket, and if they wanted 10 tickets, would pay $220. The discount rate for those students who waive the $200 reflects the lower administrative costs of dealing with the aggregated funds from the waivers, compared to handling individual a la carte tickets and receipts. The actual discount rate would be determined based on how much hassle it is to administer loose ticket sales.
9. Encourage a secondary a la carte market for those students from Steps 6 and 7 who wish to fully liquidate the value of their $200 waiver. Assume the student in the example in Step 6 only needs 6 out of the 10 tickets they can get at the discounted rate, but does -not- want to contribute the balance of their $200 to either the class gift. They are encouraged to sell their unneeded 4 tickets to other students. They could sell their unneeded tickets for $21 each, earning themselves a small premium while providing a small discount to the purchasing student, compared to the official a la carte price. Other options would be for the student who needs only 6 tickets to leave the balance of his $200 in the class gift fund as a donation, or get all 10 tickets and give away the remaining 4 to someone who they think deserves them. Matching buyers and sellers can be done via paper on a bulletin board, or a TWEN page. The buy/sell choices are left to individual students, with minimal chance of free-riding.
= = Events
10. Class of 2008 likely still has some fundraising events up its sleeve before time is up, and on a going-forward basis these events can be billed as raising funds for -both- the class gift and graduation reception, in combination or separately. A happy hour could be billed as a 50-50 split fundraiser, or completely going to pay for graduation reception costs. Those people who attend and contribute, know precisely where their $ is going.
11. Whatever general funds are raised, separate from the ticket sales, can go to make up any short-fall in the revenue raised from ticket sales and the actual costs of the reception.
Unresolved in this proposal are the choice of class gift and need for a reporting by the class leadership re: the amount raised for the class gift so far.
New class gift: Bronze Statue of MW in gladiator garb standing on top of the body of BM.
Methinks anonymous 1:08 took Telecommunications Law. Nice work.
11:08. On the statue's plaque the all important question will be asked:
"What's the good word?"
Why are they still raising money for the class gift? Shouldn't the money raised from the auction go towards graduation? Or do the class officers think that the fear of having to pay for graduation is going to force people to sign over their deposits?
Bingo!
Here's what's not right- anyone who has a question regarding this issue should find some magic way of attending the town hall meeting today. Well, some of us have jobs, some of us have other obligations. It doesn't mean that we don't care. The town hall meeting simply doesn't provide people with a fair opportunity to address their concerns. I can see how this will play out-- "well, everyone had an opportunity to discuss their concerns at the town hall meeting. If you weren't there, you lost your chance to talk and have an opinion on this." There is no perfect day to schedule the town hall meeting, but having one group discussion on this is simply not enough!
anonymous 1:08. Can I get fries with my ala carte option? Possibly chili or a side salad?
We need some post (during?) meeting updates for those of us at work. What is MW wearing? Has he punched anyone yet? Has anyone spoke up at all? Will there be ala carte options at the reception?
There were about 9 people (other than the 3 officers) at the meeting. I'd say we had a quorum.
Exactly what I imagined would happen. 9 people!!! There are more than 9 people interested in this- they just couldn't make it just like I couldn't make it! Now we probably lost our opportunity to talk about it, as far as the class officers are concerned.
So what was decided? Discussed?
Allow me to clarify. This is actually the second town hall that was held. Only one person showed up to the first one, which was held on a Wednesday.
So only ten people can make it between both Mondays and Wednesdays? Wow, what busy lives we lead.
Thanks. 10 people out of 165?
Let's face it, people don't care enough to show up, but they care enough to bitch and complain.
I'll bet money that most who complain haven't sought out a class officer to voice his/her concern or seek clarification. Instead, they're sitting at home and are complaining to someone else because a class officer never came to seek YOU out. Well, I've talked to a class officer and I feel a lot better about the whole situation. Although I don't necessarily agree with everything that's going on, I understand and support them.
Get off your lazy ass and do something about it.
Damn.
I was at school today and still didn't go to the meeting -- I have faith that the class officers will come up with the best solution.
rice eater, thanks for the clarification. Anon. 1:21 here- I guess my concern is exactly that attitude- "what busy lives we lead"- I hope that's not what the class officers think. I have to work and do work monday, wednesday, and friday. No one pays my bills, no scholarships, or extra help-- I am on my own and need to work to put myself through school. $200 (the waiver amount) means probably more to me than to others.
The first townhall meeting was not publicized at all! This one, while publicized, was conveniently put on the same basic schedule scheme as the first one-- I am sure everyone noticed that classes are either on Mon/Weds or Tues/Thurs. So, having a meeting on weds and then on monday does not cover more of the 3L population.
Synopsis of the meeting:
Why can't we shift goals to paying for commencement instead of a class gift since we have already raised three times what last year's class raised for another unnamed class gift?
MW: Because I don't want to.
What if, once we raise $25,000 for the class gift we shift fundraising goals towards paying for commencement?
MW: I don't want to do that.
Can we at least give everyone two free tickets so our parents can come to our commencement?
MW: What I want is more important because I work harder than you, so no.
Everyone, welcome to the people's republic of Wautlet ...
Boo on the slamming MW and the officers. I agree that this situation is a bit of a bummer, and we need a solution... but MW and the other class officers have gone above and beyond many a time the past three years.
nobody's slamming anybody...but going above and beyond over the past 2 years and 3 months of law school doesn't entitle you to dictatorship. sorry.
viva la revolution!
1st: ANON 1:54... if you can't attend the meeting because you work. WRITE AN EMAIL EXPRESSING YOUR OPINION. Also, since you're at work, please don't charge a client for the time spent writing that email.
2nd: It's only $200! Stop being so f'in cheap for god's sake! YOu just paid $70K for tuition, costs, and interest. Don't over-represent the "hardhip" of this issue. Thanks.
Also, if CU is so damn cheap they won't even give us enough $$ for graduation. Get mad at the legislature, not MW. If some people feel so underprivileged that they can't afford it, perhaps we should establish "SCHOLARSHIPS" for students that show need. I bet the Dean would even pick up the tab.
yeah, what the last anonymous said.
anon 3:38, can I borrow $100? And don't give me the excuse that you don't have it - that would be pretty f'ing cheap - I mean, from the sound of it you have cash coming in from all over the place ...
Questions for the class officers about this "brilliant gym idea"
(1) Is there going to be a fund to maintain the gym? Because in 5 years when that place is a disgusting, smelly, and with old equipment would you, want the Class of 2008 associated with it?
(2) Will the undergrads and the homeless men that love the law school be allowed to use this gym?
(3) Is the administration making any assurances that the gym will remain open in the long term? Meaning what happens if in a couple years the student body decides the gym is not worth the space then will our gift disappear and our "legacy" become a distant memory?
Is the gym a done deal? I thought we still had one more vote between the gym and LRAP??
Today, people expressed concerns, and MW's answer was basically: "you voted for me, I represent you, I decide what's best." Hmmmm. "Ok, well then can we use anything extra over 25K for graduation?" "No." ....well then, why bother having a meeting at all? Posterity.
I hate to say it, but this is not about the best interests of the class - MW's doing what's best for him in some twisted way: his statements like, "I earned this money for the class gift and am not giving it up so someone's grandma can get a free lunch at graduation," are so egocentric and repulsive that they're shocking to hear from him. I had no idea it was like that. This is clearly not about the interests of the class at large....and what are the interests of the class at large?? At this point, I think it's about having everyone graduate and not be pissed off or leaving school with a bad taste as a result of this.
I'd much rather have MW pissed off that his class gift wasn't as enormous as he wanted, than have a mass of people in the class pissed off that MW wouldn't compromise and use some of the class money for graduation.
wow, this is long. I vote we give all the money to LT. He is super.. Thanks for asking!!
This whole attitude is just ridiculous. MW was not elected king. He really is supposed to represent us and that doesn't mean that he knows what's best for us. What happened to this guy? He appeared to be much more humble and receptive-- he definitely had me fooled.
Let me see if I have this straight. If my grandma, or parents, or husband, or children want to see me graduate, do they have to pay $20 for a ticket each?
Or can they see me graduate for free, but not go and listen to a band and eat food at the school immediately following the graduation?
And can I personally graduate without paying $20 for the reception? I understand I have to pay $50+ so I can look like Dumbledore (he is gay, btw) and rent a gown, but am I REQUIRED to pay for anything else (my degree)?
Some clarification on this would be great.
Does His Majesty MW think building a gym will put in the same category as BM building a law school? Is this class gift and how elaborate it is going to be about our class as a whole or about His Majesty MW?Just wondering.
How is it a class gift if the money was raised by the law school community? doesn't that make it a gift from the law school community and not our class?
But if we told people that the money we were raising at different functions was for the class gift --how can we then just take it for our own use??
Do we have time to do another event to help with graduation?
Is this a correct synopsis of what we're talking about? Our options are:
1. Graduation + reception. Funding: unclear (tuition deposits?).
2. Blow-out party the night of graduation. Funding: unclear.
3. Class of 2008 Gift: funding well in progress. Gift TBD, either a gym or LRAP donation. Only those who sign over their tuition deposits get to vote.
Dumbledore is NOT gay!
Yes-the talent show is a big fundraiser. We could put that money toward graduation costs and represent that the money is going toward graduation costs. Then there is no misrepresentation as far as where the funds are going. Also, didn't we elect more than 1 class officer? We know MW's view on the issue (all money raised through fundraising efforts-including, if you read carefully, money from the tuition deposit waivers--goes to the class gift, even if MW's $25,000 goal for the class gift is met), but what do the other class officers think? Also, MW metioned at the townhall meeting that if the class wanted any amount above $25,000 to go towards graduation, he would do so only if he received a petition signed by a majority of the 3L class.
Who is starting the petition?
Finally, MW is showing his true colors... only took 3 years for him to make it so public. Many individuals in the student gov't have seen it coming for a long time now...
I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Hey Anon 7:44. If you have a problem with MW then post under your real name. You are a COWARD.
I may not agree with his viewpoint, but will not be reduced to personal attacks from anonymity.
Hey anon 9:03, I think you anonymously calling someone a coward (in all caps nonetheless) is a little hypocritical.
nonetheless he is right.
or she. ha.
Anonymity makes everyone so brave!!! Where are all of you when it really counts (voting for class officers, attending meetings, etc.)?
for an awesome alternative class gift, see the SNAFU post's comments. i'm onto something, there.
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