Hakim posted this a while ago, but I thought it would be good for the incoming class, and it might even help some 2Ls and 3Ls who have taken a bit longer to adjust (it's never too late to stop being "that guy").
20 Tips to Avoid Being A Douchebag in Law School
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I whole-heartedly agree with the comment re: don't raise your hand in the last 5 minutes of class. And to the incoming 1Ls particularly considering the anonymous comments being back on- be nice to each other. Enjoy orientation! haha suckers (j/k)
Oh, god. The poor little bastards... Get out now, before you're $90k in debt and without a choice.
Make time to go skiing:)
How ironic that HS posted that. Out of the 20 tips, my personal favorite is the name-changing one- SERIOUSLY!
I would add don't spend a lot of time listening to random advice. Go with people you know and trust. Otherwise they might tell you to brief cases for the entire 1st year.
I would just say don't worry too much. It's not life or death, it's just law school. It's meant to be a little stressful the first year, but really, don't let it get to you. Have fun, get a ski pass, etc.
Law school's okay. There are worse things. One thing that's helped me: I never study in the library right before finals. The tension, you could cut it with a knife. Study at home. Mental health is key.
If a girl in your class that you like makes out with someone else, don't worry about it. She will probably make out with you eventually. The same goes for guys in your class. Stressed out law school students give it up to just about anybody.
hahaha that's good anon @ 9:28.
probably true, too.
i'd add don't stress about exams - really, there's not too much (other than the usual) you can do to get an A+ versus a C+. it's not totally random, but to a certain degree...it is. i have friends with an incredible understanding of the material, only to get a high c or low b in a class.
they're not as bad as you would think - once you get to the exam period, life gets a lot easier, actually, b/c all you have to do is read, not worry, and go take the exams. the academic year is harder, in many ways.
Intra-law school dating is okay, but watch out for the married ones: DO NOT have an affair during law school.
1) Listen to Cadoner.
2) If you ignore step #1, then don't feel obligated to laugh at all of the professor's jokes or witty remarks.
Grades are 1,000,000 times more important than extracurricular activities. You can be a board member on Law Review, but if you are not in the top 1/3, the top firms will probably not interview you. Grades are much more important than being a member of the African Asian Italian Law Student Association. If people tell you otherwise, they are big fat liars.
Also, chances are you won't get great grades. Just sayin...
I agree that grades are by far the most important. Nobody really cares about any extracurricular activities since anyone can join any group, and all the lawyers who interview for firms are smart enough to recognize resume padding and type-A overachieving. Even the few extracurricular activities which are not entirely voluntary (such as journals, Law Review, moot courts and mock trial, and class and SBA leadership) don’t tend to impress employers very much for various different reasons. (Class and SBA leadership since the people who run self-select, and are generally no better or worse than other students; moot courts and mock trial for the same reason, and because the skills don’t translate much into actual practice since so much time is spent in competition-preparation; journals and Law Review because it’s relatively easy to make it onto one of the three, although hardest for Law Review). Of the smorgasbord of potential extracurriculars, the only one I’d recommend angling for is Law Review, and barring that, a journal; for whatever reason (tradition, pure irrationality, good reason, etc.) Law Review is viewed favorably by employers, since they assume that getting on requires some kind of minimal competency (which is only half-true; you have to write well, but you also have to get lucky with whom your readers are, and the whole process is a lot like law school assessments in general—based upon objective criteria, but only loosely). Journals, even without the cache of Law Review, are also viewed favorably since they show an interest in writing, and a desire to get better at it; writing is at the heart of the lawyer’s craft. That said, grades are FAR more important than Law Review or either journal (or anything else), so always focus on that as your top priority; don’t feel bad when all your classmates are joining lots of groups, because that means close to nothing. (If you want to join for other, idealistic, reasons, then that’s different. Still, know what you’re doing before you commit a lot of time—a lot of the groups achieve very little in terms of their ostensible “policy” goals, and end up being a (generally unsuccessful) vehicle for students to pad their resumes; don’t play the game). As for the purported randomness of grades, don’t believe in that too much, either—there certainly is a lot of randomness and variability in the bulky part of the curve, but the two tail ends often remain markedly consistent; I don’t know what it takes to be in the good end (or what will condemn you to the bad end), but my guess is that a lot of it has to do with how well you think, organize, and write on exams, and that can’t really be learned—you’re either lucky in those skills, or you’re not (and it’s not entirely clear that those skills have much predictive value regarding your abilities as a lawyer). Study hard and try hard (and don’t get too distracted with extracurriculars) during your first semester, and see where you come out on the curve—statistically (supposedly), that’s a good indication of roughly where you’ll stay. (As for practical study tips, commercial outlines—and even BarBri materials, if you can get them from a 3L—are your friends; case books and professors confuse the issue and lose even the best students for the trees, and the commercial outlines can give you an idea of what you’re supposed to have learned. The outlines aren’t a substitute for class, but can help you figure out what the professor is trying to teach you, since the Socratic method and the study of case law is the most ass-backward way to study the law ever invented. There is no good pedagogical rationale for it, and it’s only apparently used due to tradition and the very suspect claim that it teaches you to “think like a lawyer.” That’s nonsense; either you know how to think, or you don’t, and three years of confusing materials badly organized in case books and poorly presented by professors isn’t going to help. ) Finally, know that first semester of law school sucks, is horrible, and will fill you with incredible doubt and uncertainty. It all gets better after that.
Whoa there grade loving anons!
Chill out.
1Ls -- Who cares about grades! Have fun, learn something, and enjoy the opportunity to work with some great people. There is more to life than grades and working for firms.
Do some pro bono work, go to club socials, read some cool cases, and just try to stay calm when faced with grade lovin anons.
Well, Good Karma is right, depending on what your objectives in law school are. The above advice (Anon 6:43) is obviously geared toward increasing your marketability, and hence your options, regardless of what you want to do (big firm work, PD, DA, small firm work, etc.). If you want to just enjoy law school and “learn something,” then you obviously don’t need to try hard to develop a strategy (still, it begs the question as to why you’re attending law school in the first place. Law school is a means, not an end, so don’t give up too easily, and don’t limit your options prematurely). Ironically, however, the “grade-centric” approach to law school may actually be the path of least resistance; all the time you save from not joining clubs, not doing competitions, not organizing events, etc., can be put to better use, and afford you lots of free time to enjoy Boulder. Focusing largely (or even exclusively) on grades is rational because maximizes your options (and maybe even your free time), so give it some thought.
Grade lovin anons are also job lovin anons I suspect. If you will leave law school with no debt or have a trust fund waiting for you, then by all means don't care about grades.
Grades and high paying firm jobs are both overrated. -- I say, keep your expectations low, aim for the bottom 10%, and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised in January when you get your grades back and you're in the middle --
Ok, seriously...
you must realize that A's came easy in undergrad for all 171 of your classmates. A's in law-school, however, only go to 15 or so of those 171. Will you be lucky enough to be one of those 15? Who knows.
If you want to be a serious and eager firm-loving associate making lots of money and working 80+ hour work weeks right out of law school, then you'd better be spending every Sunday-Friday in the library studying. Good grades do guarantee interviews with large firms. Because, yes, 1L grades are all that matter during OCI (on-campus interviews) before your 2L year.
If you're normal, like the rest of us, you'll figure our your own study habits. And, you'll take some good grades and some bad grades and deal with it. You'll still get a great job and, best of all, you might even enjoy your life and your time in law school.
As for student organizations, remember school is always the first priority. But, that doesn't mean you won't have time to join something where you can meet more people, do some resume padding, networking, etc. Also, having upperclass friends are invaluable, especially when you need outlines, study aids, study advice and more.
Make a list of all the things that are important to you that do not involve law school (e.g. family, friends, sanity, etc.) Put it somewhere where you can see it. When you are stressed about grades, confused in class, or generally want to hide under a rock for the remainder of law school, look at that list. There are a lot of things more important than law school.
Grades are all-important, but don’t be convinced that getting good grades requires constant (or even diligent) study. Many students convince themselves that endless hours in the library compiling huge outlines is the only way to get good grades, but this attitude is often counterproductive; it convinces students that they’re achieving something meaningful when they’re actually only assuaging their guilty overachieving consciences, without actually internalizing the material. Often the best approach is to put off study until the last week or two, and then work around-the-clock really trying to understand the material, not writing a tome that you won’t have time to refer to during the exam. The rules of study and the limits of human memory don’t suddenly change when you’re in law school, so don’t fear that the students around you who are making 100-page outlines will have any advantage over you if you enter an exam with a 5-page outline; the key is to enter the exam with the best practical understanding of the material that you can muster, and having a book of rules next to you won’t help. The problem with extracurriculars (and even semester-long diligent study), is that it gives you an excuse not to work extra-hard during the only two-week period that matters—the two weeks before the final. (You convince yourself that you have other obligations to attend to, or that all your hard work during the semester should count for something. Both perceptions are wrong, and the only way to do well on exams is to have studied more (and more importantly—smarter) than the other people taking the exam during the final two weeks before the test.) And remember, “studying” means trying to understand the material, not creating a written record that would convince other people that you understand the material.
Best advice for a 1L...Don't get your advice from a blog. Even this one...Cadoner is the only one not BSing you, and he told you to get out now!
Can you tell me where my trust fund is located... I can't seem to find it?
And I will agree with anon 9:57, this blog is fun, but take all our advice with a shovel full of salt :)
Thanks for all the advice guys.
First day of orientation was today and I have yet to meet any hygiene products, but the year is long and I annoy easily.
I enjoyed the table offering us counseling for alcoholism, followed by a weeks worth of free-beer-events. I plan on making use of both.
Its good to see anonymous posting again. It makes the blog much more interesting.
Also, if you don't want to go absolutely crazy, find yourself some friends outside of the law school. That way you avoid talking about class in every freaking conversation.
re: grade crazy/OCI
I did not have stellar grades (even a C-! *gasp*) and I still got quite a few interviews through OCI. I am a living example of why numbers do not define people.
Don't be a jerk (people talk) and network like its going out of style and you will likely get land the job you desire out of law school.
Three things:
1) Rule 7 - ... [y]our intentions couldn’t be more obvious if you sent them a dozen roses and a pair of your underwear.
NOTE Exception: If you are hot and send me a pair of your underwear - I will give you all my outlines.
2) Rule 21: Don't put long-ass anon posts on the blawg - practice being concise. (Douche above, please note this).
3) Don't be Hak.... never-mind.
Be immature. Douche, balls, poppycock. Also, don't start an underground dog fighting ring, especially if you are an NFL quarterback with $130 million contract.
10) Unless you have had major surgery on your back, do not buy a rolling book suitcase thing. If you can’t carry your books on your back, hit the gym. [This is rampant problem at CU]
11) Don’t have a douchebaggy name like Jordon, Jacob, Moiz, Kyle, or Ethan. Seriously consider a name change. [Well played]
BVD and last Anon: Articles such as "a" and "the" are still used in the English language.
My $0.02? Set aside one day per week, in which you do absolutely nothing law-school related.
And I say, set aside one day per week in which you actually do something law school related.
Zing!
Law school grades play a signaling function in the legal job market: Good grades in law school are a direct function of time and applied effort, not much more or less -- this isn't rocket science, but if you want the top grade you just have to know the stuff better than anyone else in the room. To the partners at big firm employers, good grades are a strong predictor of how willing/able associates will deliver them the desired profit margins by generating oodles of billable hours on their behalf. You will be well compensated for those hours, but your bosses will be even better compensated for your time. Thus, the seemingly ruthless focus upon grades by employers for the OCI cut has a rational underlying economic basis, quite apart whether it is a good or bad thing. But implicit in the competition for the top grades and billable hours is the individual's decision to forgo other uses of his or her time that are not as profitable. That either self-selects or grooms a certain personality-type and world view that may or may not be aligned with the value system any given 1L brings with them to law school.
All that said, do your best to get top grades -- if you succeed, you will justifiably feel proud of yourself, you have the option to transfer to a better school, and you will have more options for employment right out of school. But hold on to yourself and your values, because with these options come insidious temptations -- the world has enough unhappy but otherwise successful lawyers stumbling around out there and we don't need more.
For those who don't reach the top 10% or 20%, don't fret too much -- by choosing to spend more time on extracurricular (perhaps) you may not land a 6-figure offer right out of school, but you can catch up to those salaries within a few years assuming you work hard and excel where ever you do land, if that kind of pay is what you really want. And by devoting at least some time/effort engaged in the law school community, you'll have developed the patience and dexterity to work around and manage fellow lawyers, even those with the unique personalities of the top grade-getters.
"20 Tips to Avoid Being A Douchebag in Law School" -- the title of that 'advice' says more about the author/original-poster than anything productive.
There can be, but need not be, a fair amount of judgemental B.S. at law school, sometimes more like high school than undergrad, for some strange reason. So ignore the attitude that is behind that advice. Instead 1Ls - please be yourself, at least for the first year -- don't worry about what your habits appear like to others...as summer rolls around there will be enough conformity when people start looking for first legal jobs (remember that 1L with dreadlocks...did he transfer to Berkeley?). The vast majority of you are really interesting, smart, entertaining, in your own quirky ways perhaps, and just realize that you all will be adjusting to the work-load and stress in idiosyncratic ways...give each other some slack, and have fun along the way.
And if you feel the natural urge to belittle someone (usually kicks in during 2nd month of 1L year), join one of the competitive trial/moot-court teams and take it out on students from another school!
Thank God anon posting is back--we're getting great comments from people who appear to be practitioners, professors, and, of course, us "douchebag" students. Keep the dialog coming!
"For those who don't reach the top 10% or 20%, don't fret too much" ...
Because in five years those people at the "good" law firms will be begging career services for help finding a fulfilling job and calling the rehab place to get off the meth! All this while you blissfully enjoy really helping people (and skiing on the weekends).
I might add that "being yourself" doesn't mean you have free reign to act like a jerk.
Cadoner, you are a douche (too easy, really).
"And by devoting at least some time/effort engaged in the law school community, you'll have developed the patience and dexterity to work around and manage fellow lawyers, even those with the unique personalities of the top grade-getters."
unique personalities? Don't you mean douche bags?
By the way, thanks for leaving such a long post that could have been summed up in a few sentences. Ass.
Hey MS,
Who used to beat you as a child? The reason why you have such short posts and other people have long ones, is that they actually have things to say. Get over it.
Three things:
1. There are jerks like MS at law school who fit the stereotype of egotistical nasty sharks who are miserable people with nothing good to say. Don't believe the hype, or MS. Thankfully, MS is an anomoly at CU for the most part: people are in fact friendly, share notes, and are not trying to cut you down every step of the way. Be nice to your peers - law school is high school and it'll get around your peers who, coincidentially, are your future colleagues.
2. Your professors, with few exceptions (Prof LS for 1Ls), play hide the ball - meaning they are intentionallly not giving you answers or are hiding the answers/rules that do exist. This can be very frustrating - they do it to teach us to think like lawyers, but it's not very helpful - it can lead you astray if your professor is doing a good job. Thus, after a torts class with Prof PS for example, consulting a gilberts or emanuals to remind yourself whats important is a helpful exercise.
3. Don't forget why you decided you came to law school. Many law students want to save the world/whales/children. Between the high loans and the unspoken idea that working at a big firm is the ideal, it's not surprising so many lawyers abandon their dream of saving the world for the big firm bucks. It's understandable; however, most of the big firms treat associates like shit, work them to death, and make them do something soulless like defending insurance companies.... and this might explain why lawyers have the highest rates of drug abuse, depression, suicide, alcoholism, etc... Here's the formula: take bright motivated law students, give us a few years in practice, and the odds are against us being happy - so, it's true, get out while you can! Since that's not really an option anymore, see you for the first day of class tomorrow!
Also, don't forget why you decided to come to Colorado (to ski, hike, and mountain bike). Don't let anyone convince you that these things are not important. Don't neglect your sanity and health.
Interesting discussion y'all got going here. A few thoughts:
- Grades are important, no doubt about it, but it really depends on what you want to do with your J.D. If you want to work at a mega law firm they're largely determinative (as noted above). If you want to clerk for a U.S. District Court judge, they're nearly essential. If you want to be a PD or a DA, they're not overly important. It totally depends.
- The book "Getting to Maybe" is extremely helpful re: understanding law school exams.
- Fully enjoy the first two months of each semester. Ski, bike, read novels, whatever it is that makes you happy. After that, it depends on how much you want to work and cram for finals.
I would add that if you ever feel like you've studied enough and that you should take a break: Don't. But other than that, try not to take this stuff too seriously.
Don't delude yourself into thinking that the kids at the top of the class put the most hours in. Sure, everyone has to do a certain amount of work to know the material, but a lot of it comes down to how you test. Testing well is a hard thing to learn, and studying more won't get you there.
Hang out with people outside of law school. Don't try to drag them into your law school world. Enjoy their non-law company. First rule of law school: don't talk about law school. Leave that shit at the door. (all this gives sanity)
If you LOVE to ski/snowboard and can afford to make it happen, shoot for 30 days your first year. Totally doable, and totally worth it. You will not likely again have as much free time as you will during law school. (this applies equally to other activities, especially CO specific activities, that you may be into).
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